[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Vladar would have had the same or worse stats than Markstrom if he had the same games played. He finished with a .895 sv%. The Flames didn't have a #1 goaltender this season.

Vladar was on a roll for a while and Markstrom got on a bit of a roll at the end. It seemed like we too often got the opposite of whoever we wanted in net.

Neither were good, but when you're talking about 3 points...it's possible that things like that can make a difference.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by badradio

Did you not read that this is my “tinfoil hat theory?” I do think it’s about control and Sutter wants more of it.

Unlike virtually everybody here, I don't hate Sutter. Out of everyone that's been associated with this organization over the last decade plus, he's easily accomplished the most.

I remember after Geoff Ward was fired, I warned everybody that Sutter was a grouchy hard ass, who preferred veterans, was defense-first and played a boring style of hockey, yet everybody was still ecstatic and jumping for joy. Fast-forward 2 years and now everybody is complaining about these very things.

CP needs help.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Even if you don't blame Sutter at all for Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, it's a real problem the way he treats young defensemen.

Valimaki was a serious loss for the organization. A first round pick that is now playing at a borderline star level for another team after being lost on waivers of all things. Sure, he stunk up the joint and a lot of us understood why they favored Mackey over him at the time, but a coach should be able to get a read on a player's potential and management should know better than to let a promising defenseman go on waivers just because a coach doesn't like how he's playing.
.

That is more on Treliving. Cap space is why he was waived. Treliving could have kept Valimaki on the roster but had basically no cap space. I think he also missed out on claiming Tolvanen.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Valimaki was a serious loss for the organization. A first round pick that is now playing at a borderline star level for another team after being lost on waivers of all things. Sure, he stunk up the joint and a lot of us understood why they favored Mackey over him at the time, but a coach should be able to get a read on a player's potential and management should know better than to let a promising defenseman go on waivers just because a coach doesn't like how he's playing.

It's Sutter's fault Valimaki sucked balls in training camp?

Dude was given every opportunity to step into the top 6. He could only manage to do it on a lottery team.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Even if you don't blame Sutter at all for Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, it's a real problem the way he treats young defensemen.

Valimaki was a serious loss for the organization. A first round pick that is now playing at a borderline star level for another team after being lost on waivers of all things. Sure, he stunk up the joint and a lot of us understood why they favored Mackey over him at the time, but a coach should be able to get a read on a player's potential and management should know better than to let a promising defenseman go on waivers just because a coach doesn't like how he's playing.

But management didn't know better. And we know they didn't know better because they did the same thing two years earlier with Oliver Kylington. He played 38 games for Peters on a team that came in 2nd in the league and then the next year Sutter played him a total of eight games on a bubble team that missed the playoffs. The Flames put him on waivers and also exposed him in the expansion draft. They are actually fortunate that they only lost one top 4 defenseman under 25 years old on account of Sutter's coaching and management's inability to intervene.

what

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

It's Sutter's fault Valimaki sucked balls in training camp?

Dude was given every opportunity to step into the top 6. He could only manage to do it on a lottery team.

We're a lottery team.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Vladar was on a roll for a while and Markstrom got on a bit of a roll at the end. It seemed like we too often got the opposite of whoever we wanted in net.

Neither were good, but when you're talking about 3 points...it's possible that things like that can make a difference.

Vladar got his run and sucked as well

https://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/6817/gamelog/

[8sPOT]

I think you need to have a shot at the 1st pick to be a lottery team. We aren’t that, unfortunately.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Vladar would have had the same or worse stats than Markstrom if he had the same games played. He finished with a .895 sv%. The Flames didn't have a #1 goaltender this season.

Listen, Vladar wasn't spectacular this season either. I'm not gonna say the Flames would've been contenders with Dan. But he was the better goaltender in my opinion and I think his record compared to Markstrom at the very least, speaks to that. The team for whatever the reason that I haven't bothered looking into, just played better in front of him.

Maybe they felt more free to make mistakes in front of him, so they took more risks and chances, I don't know. But I do remember hearing a lot this season that the team seemed to give more run support for Vladar over Markstrom. Not sure by how much if any, but I do remember hearing that a lot earlier this season.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

It's Sutter's fault Valimaki sucked balls in training camp?

Dude was given every opportunity to step into the top 6. He could only manage to do it on a lottery team.

Valimaki looked great prior to Sutter.

He sucked under Sutter.

Looks great for Arizona.

Yes, it is Sutter’s fault. Yeah, there was an injury in there - but if that injury was so debilitating then why was he all of a sudden much better in Arizona?

Yes, it was Sutter’s fault. Why are we shocked at this though? None of the young players had good camps. Is it all of the young players, or was it how Sutter structured his camp?

[DoubleK]

I disagree.

There were jobs available NONE of the kids stepped up.

That's not on the coach.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Sutter didn't give any young players a fair shot and had decided prior to camp all would be sent down but Jusso was given a shot and he was terrible.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Listen, Vladar wasn't spectacular this season either. I'm not gonna say the Flames would've been contenders with Dan. But he was the better goaltender in my opinion and I think his record compared to Markstrom at the very least, speaks to that. The team for whatever the reason that I haven't bothered looking into, just played better in front of him.

Maybe they felt more free to make mistakes in front of him, so they took more risks and chances, I don't know. But I do remember hearing a lot this season that the team seemed to give more run support for Vladar over Markstrom. Not sure by how much if any, but I do remember hearing that a lot earlier this season.

I think they both sucked and were interchangeably bad and you might as well try and get guy who has shown he can lock it down the chance to get going and run with it.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

I think you need to have a shot at the 1st pick to be a lottery team. We aren’t that, unfortunately.

Imagine how much the mood would change around here if the Flames won the lottery to get the 6th pick.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Imagine how much the mood would change around here if the Flames won the lottery to get the 6th pick.

Cause that's how things roll for this franchise...

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

what

He had a pretty damn good year on an atrocious team that was trying to tank.

GP: 78 G: 4 A: 30 P: 34 (50th among defensemen) +/-: -10
CF: 50.6 Def. Zone Starts: 57.1

I'll grant that using the word star (even "borderline star") is a stretch, but that's a really useful player to lose for nothing.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I disagree.

There were jobs available NONE of the kids stepped up.

That's not on the coach.

But were those ‘jobs available’ subject to how well the kids could chip, chase, and battle the veterans? Because that’s how the Flames played (unsuccessfully) all season, which is on the coach.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by JBR

Cliff Fletcher says hello.

I was born in 91. My knowledge pre 89 is wanting.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Sutter didn't give any young players a fair shot and had decided prior to camp all would be sent down but Jusso was given a shot and he was terrible.

The only one I can get behind not getting a fair shake is Phillips. Ruzicka got a good chance and then faded. Pelletier's most common linemates were Huberdeau and Kadri and he didn't produce. I'll eat crow if it happens but I think Phillips will never make it as a regular in the NHL.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It truly is the most Flames thing ever to look at probably going into a rebuild the first year after a generational talent is in the draft.

So tired of the 'most Flames thing ever' garbage. It's just so lazy.

First of all, it takes more than one year to get to the bottom. Second, other than a brief stint of historical ineptitude, triggered by the Oilers, the first overall pick is a good player pretty much every year. Here are the last 20 years:

2003: Fleury..... 2013:MacKinnon
2004: Ovechkin 2014: Ekblad
2005: Crosby... 2015: McDavid
2006: Staal..... 2016: Matthews
2007: Kane..... 2017: Hischier
2008: Stamkos 2018: Dahlin
2009: Tavares.. 2019: Hughes
2010: Hall....... 2020: Lafreniere
2011: RNH...... 2021: Power
2012: Yakupov. 2022: Slatkovsky

Every year, the draft gets deeper and deeper. And every year, the scouts, collectively, get better at sorting out talent.