Battle of Alberta Real Talk

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

The Oilers were an embarrassment to the NHL and professional sports for over a decade. There is nothing to be envious of with that team. In my opinion, they also have the worst fans in the league. I wish them nothing but failure.

Aaaaaaaaamen.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Oilers haven't even won a division title

As good as some of you think they look the Flames have had better regular seasons. Neither team has won anything in the playoffs

People are giving them credit for things that haven't happened

Nobody cares about giving the Oilers credit for anything.

Take the names and places out of the equation.

Fundamentally, having two top-4 players is better than not having them.

Everyone and their dog knows the best place to find them. It isn’t a secret.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

This is funny. How many times they have drafted 1st overall? And what have they done prior to lucking into McDiver? How many of those 1st overall are still on the team now? If they don't luck into McDiver, do you honestly think they'd make the playoff this year?

Here:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The best way to look at the Oilers is that they were the worst managed organization in the league for a stretch of time. They tried to be good, but were so incompetent that they couldn't get out of the bottom of the standings.

The great thing (as Flames fans) is that they bottomed out in weak draft years for a number of years.

Eventually, their incompetence landed them McDavid and Draisaitl...and unfortunately things are becoming better there. When you have talent that level, even the craziest levels of incompetence will eventually get destroyed.

They were a terribly managed team, but are slowly becoming better. I think since the Bubble, they've been pretty well managed.

As smug as we may be, they destroyed us in the 2nd round last season and now we're missing the playoffs with an old, rubbish roster.

Lots of Flames fans seem to exclusively conflate the idea of "rebuilding" with what the Oilers (and the previous management team in Buffalo) did. I don't buy that line of thinking. I don't think we're incompetently managed, and our scouting staff is significantly better than Edmonton's. If the Flames were to rebuild, they wouldn't be wandering aimlessly like Edmonton and Buffalo did under their poor management structure.

As a Flames fan, I want elite players on this team. I'm tired of overpaying aged free agents. So when I talk about the Flames rebuilding, I'm not talking the trash the Oilers did from like 2009-2014. I'm talking about what New Jersey did from 2017-2022.

The Devils are now a supremely talented, young, fast team with a core they can keep together for a decade. I want that. It guarantees nothing, but it gives the team a chance and the fans got to watch that team grow and develop together. That's what I want.

E=NG.

How the Oilers got there is irrelevant. Also, the fact that it's the Oilers is irrelevant. Let's not look at the Oilers.

Let's look at the Flames:

Since the Modern Era of the NHL began in 2005/2006 the Calgary Flames have made the playoffs in 9 of 18 seasons, four of which happened in the first four years of it - so really, we've made the playoffs in 5 of the last 14 seasons - holy !@#$ that sucks.

05/06: Lost in Round 1
06/07: Lost in Round 1
07/08: Lost in Round 1
08/09: Lost in Round 1
09/10: Missed
10/11: Missed
11/12: Missed
12/13: Missed
13/14: Missed
14/15: Lost in Round 2
15/16: Missed
16/17: Lost in Round 1
17/18: Missed
18/19: Lost in Round 1
19/20: Lost in Round 1
20/21: Missed
21/22: Lost in Round 2
22/23: Missed

The Flames were never bad on purpose. They were also so mis-managed that they never correctly assessed their own teams.

Why shouldn't the Flames try a different approach? Two playoff round victories in 18 seasons. We're incompetent, and refuse to acknowledge it so we never get any better.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Even without McDavid, they still would have had Draisaitl and Hall. that’s still two Hart trophy forwards -

TBF, Hall didn't win Hart until he was with New Jersey. The Oilers decided to trade him for Larsson. So, if they didn't get McDavid, and have Hall with Draisaitl, will they be in position where they are now? Do you honestly think those two can carry the team the same way McDavid can? With the league pampering McDavid? Without McDavid, the league wouldn't bat an eyelash on that pathetic team.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

We were at West Ed a few weeks ago and my 5 yo son was wearing a Flames hoodie and a couple of grown men were heckling him for it. Absolute trash fans to go along with an absolute trash organization.

Well, to be fair, they ARE in a trash city, it's in their blood, they can't help themselves.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

TBF, Hall didn't win Hart until he was with New Jersey. The Oilers decided to trade him for Larsson. So, if they didn't get McDavid, and have Hall with Draisaitl, will they be in position where they are now? Do you honestly think those two can carry the team the same way McDavid can? With the league pampering McDavid? Without McDavid, the league wouldn't bat an eyelash on that pathetic team.

I dunno, I think you underestimate the long term intuitional hockey world support of the Oilers. They're kinda like the New Hollywood crop of directors nowadays. Coppola hasn't been as good since the 70s, but he's still esteemed as Coppola.

[dino7c]

Oilers wouldn't be good without McDavid...like are you guys even serious?

Every player on that team would drop by 30+ points


Look forward to bumping this when the Oilers don't win, don't have a first, and are down to 2 years with this lineup.

Oilers made the west final barely beating LA without Doughty and then beating the Flames with .800 Markstrom and an assist from the league. Then got swept.


They haven't done F all....Flames won two division titles

Let me know when they win something, clock is ticking

Flames have slightly more reg season success, Oilers have one decent playoffs in which they weren't actually a threat. With 8 years of McDavid

It's a fair argument with other teams but not the Oilers

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Oilers wouldn't be good without McDavid...like are you guys even serious?

Every player on that team would drop by 30 points

Toronto wouldn't be good without Matthews
Pittsburgh wouldn't have won Cups without Crosby
Washington wouldn't have won the Cup without Ovechkin
Chicago wouldn't have won Cups without Kane.
LA wouldn't have won Cups without Doughty.
Tampa wouldn't have won Cups without Hedman.

...what are you getting that? That they wouldn't be good if they didn't have their best player?

Hey, look - we lost our best player last year and we're trash too.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Oilers wouldn't be good without McDavid...like are you guys even serious?

Every player on that team would drop by 30 points


Look forward to bumping this when the Oilers do t win, don't have a first, and are down to 2 years with this lineup

Yup, without McDavid, they'll be in the draft Bedard tank.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

We were at West Ed a few weeks ago and my 5 yo son was wearing a Flames hoodie and a couple of grown men were heckling him for it. Absolute trash fans to go along with an absolute trash organization.

Oiler fans would get rattled/defensive about a 5 year old in Flames gear.

If your kid shouted out Spector on Twitter, he'd probably get insecure and block him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Here:

05/06: Lost in Round 1
06/07: Lost in Round 1
07/08: Lost in Round 1
08/09: Lost in Round 1
09/10: Missed
10/11: Missed
11/12: Missed
12/13: Missed
13/14: Missed
14/15: Lost in Round 2
15/16: Missed
16/17: Lost in Round 1
17/18: Missed
18/19: Lost in Round 1
19/20: Lost in Round 1
20/21: Missed
21/22: Lost in Round 2
22/23: Missed

The Flames were never bad on purpose. They were also so mis-managed that they never correctly assessed their own teams.

Why shouldn't the Flames try a different approach? Two playoff round victories in 18 seasons. We're incompetent, and refuse to acknowledge it so we never get any better.

Your point still stands - but think you were wrong about never being bad on purpose.

They were supposed to be bad on purpose after trading Iggy and Bouwmeester, and Kipper retired.

The were bad to end 2013 and had 3 1sts (Monahan, Poirier, and Klimchuk). And they were bad in 13/14...it was just really tough to outsuck Edmonton, Buffalo, and Florida during that era. And the Flames got the 4th overall pick - which unfortunately never panned out for them.

And they should have sucked again in 14/15 - most people predicted a top 5 pick going into that season.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-lift-the-cup/ (2 of 5 experts had Flames picking 1st overall)

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/9/...season-preview (either us or Edmonton finishing last in the Pacific)

We were supposed to be bad. Then Monahan happened, Gaudreau happened, Hudler lead the league in Even Strength points, Gio became a Norris candidate, and they got a great PDO.

The real problem was they actually drafted too well to get guys like Brodie, Gaudreau, and Monahan, and all of a sudden they were in the playoff contention space again.

I've said this a lot...but as fun as that 14-15 season was at the time it is probably the biggest thing that set this franchise back long term. Imagine if we suck like we were supposed to and come away from that draft with McDavid or Eichel.

And really even then I think this past iteration of the Flames had enough "early draft picks" on the roster to do damage. Treliving actually reset the 14-15 season by turning the 1st from that season (plus Ferland and some other picks) into Hanifin and Lindholm. In the end Lindholm, Monahan, Tkachuk, Hanifin, Bennett were all top 6 picks, which is kind of like tanking for 6 years. Tanking never guarantees you getting a 1st overall pick - and really this organization will probably never have the luck to get one.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

TBF, Hall didn't win Hart until he was with New Jersey. The Oilers decided to trade him for Larsson. So, if they didn't get McDavid, and have Hall with Draisaitl, will they be in position where they are now? Do you honestly think those two can carry the team the same way McDavid can? With the league pampering McDavid? Without McDavid, the league wouldn't bat an eyelash on that pathetic team.

The point is, Taylor Hall and Leon Draisaitl would’ve been a very effective duo to build around, and that talent wise, the Oilers drafted three MVP forwards during their years of suck.

That one guy won an MVP for another team just shows how talented he actually was.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Your point still stands - but think you were wrong about never being bad on purpose.

They were supposed to be bad on purpose after trading Iggy and Bouwmeester, and Kipper retired.

And they were bad in 13/14...it was just really tough to outsuck Edmonton, Buffalo, and Florida during that era. And the Flames got the 4th overall pick - which unfortunately never panned out for them.

And they should have sucked again in 14/15 - most people predicted a top 5 pick going into that season.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-lift-the-cup/ (2 of 5 experts had Flames picking 1st overall)

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/9/...season-preview (either us or Edmonton finishing last in the Pacific)

We were supposed to be bad. Then Monahan happened, Gaudreau happened, Hudler lead the league in Even Strength points, Gio became a Norris candidate, and they got a great PDO.

The real problem was they actually drafted too well to get guys like Brodie, Gaudreau, and Monahan, and all of a sudden they were in the playoff contention space again.

I've said this a lot...but as fun as that 14-15 season was at the time it is probably the biggest thing that set this franchise back long term. Imagine if we suck like we were supposed to and come away from that draft with McDavid or Eichel.

I agree with this assessment. I think it lead to a total over evaluation of where the team was and that was at least one more year of picking high on the draft

[White Out 403]

modelling ones self after the Oilers is a really gross sentiment. This is a team that was a complete joke, the worst NHL team in history for over a decade. They ruined players careers with mismanagement, and won a lottery to draft a generation talent, and whining bitch, in mcdavid. Even their best player mcdavid is a complete joke, a whiney, gambling advertising baby with no heart.

and lets not forget they signed evander kane, literally human garbage. a man with credible allegations of being a domestic abuser, a problem gambler who is a dead beat dad, and allegedly pulled a gun on his baby mama. The allegations against this person were so credible the NHL let the Sharks buy him out. should have been the end of his NHl career.

Who with any dignity would want to cheer for that loser organization? And someone wants to model a team after them? The Flames aren't perfect but the organization isn't a toilet like the oIlers. They carry themselves with dignity and self respect. Sure, the on ice product isn't where it should be, but at least they didn't degrade themselves and their women fans by signing a piece of #### (alleged) wife beater. Or have a person who committed vehicular manslaughter in upper management wagging his finger at fans who cant afford to go to games.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The oilers? ####ing gross

[Yeah_Baby]

I mean the Flames signed Todd Bertuzzi.

I'm not disagreeing with you fyi, I'm just saying that the grossness isn't just an Oilers thing. It's an industry thing.

[GreenLantern2814]

^^^ you may want to look up how the flames game to obtain the services of Doug Gilmour.


Once again, you don’t need to specifically emulate the Oilers, if that is so unpalatable to you. You could emulate the capitals, Leafs, the Penguins, Blackhawks, the lightning, or the avalanche.

What you can’t do is win the Stanley Cup without a franchise player that you drafted first overall.

[activeStick]

I know there are some who believe this Oilers team has a chance, and I can understand that given they've looked good for the last month and a half of games. They might be right about them being a threat to win the cup, but I just don't see it. They did not look good at all last year's playoffs and I see mostly the same happening this playoffs. Their team isn't constructed in a way that leads to success in the playoffs and even with 97 playing the way he is, hockey has proven time and time and time again that one player or in this case, two, isn't enough. Winners will grind them down, they'll render the other teams' superstars as just good, and that will happen again. I don't think they make it past the 2nd round in fact and there's a good chance LA beats them in round 1, but I think it goes 7. They certainly wouldn't get past much better playoff-built teams like the Bruins but they won't get that far.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I mean the Flames signed Todd Bertuzzi.

I'm not disagreeing with you fyi, I'm just saying that the grossness isn't just an Oilers thing. It's an industry thing.

Todd Bertuzzi got carried away trying to fight someone, he had no intention of breaking anyones neck.

Evander Kane (allegedly) pulled a gun on his baby mamma, and the allegations of his abuse and deplorable conduct were strong enough for the NHL to let the Sharks buy him out. I reject the comparison.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I know there are some who believe this Oilers team has a chance, and I can understand that given they've looked good for the last month and a half of games. They might be right about them being a threat to win the cup, but I just don't see it. They did not look good at all last year's playoffs and I see mostly the same happening this playoffs. Their team isn't constructed in a way that leads to success in the playoffs and even with 97 playing the way he is, hockey has proven time and time and time again that one player or in this case, two, isn't enough. Winners will grind them down, they'll render the other teams' superstars as just good, and that will happen again. I don't think they make it past the 2nd round in fact and there's a good chance LA beats them in round 1, but I think it goes 7. They certainly wouldn't get past much better playoff-built teams like the Bruins but they won't get that far.

Of course they’re a threat to win the cup - they were in the conference finals last year and they’re better this year. They’re better in goal, and they’re better on the blue line, and their captain is a create-a-player with every attribute maxed out except size (just to keep it interesting).

And it isn’t about the Oilers. It’s about what ELSE needs to go right when you have talent like that, and the answer is “not much”.

Compared to “just make the playoffs”, a plan that hinges on everything going your way.

It’s just nonsense. They want a new building? Give us a new team.

[colbym72]

What scares me is that this Oilers team does look really strong going into the playoffs and is playing their best at the most important time. They have played well against top teams and realistically, how many of the top players in NHL history don't win a cup at some point? I think too many Flames fans have convinced themselves of this fantasy where McDavid will leave, but that hope can kill you and until it happens, I am not counting on it. Yeah they got swept last year in the third round, but those games were close other than one of them, and their team is better this year. there are no guarantees but I saw some data recently that showed that cup winning teams are lead by star power and not depth.

Maybe the earlier poster in here is right though--maybe them doing well would finally kick this organization into gear to figure it out. I would gladly be an embarrassment and be terrible for several years if it meant having top tier franchise players rather than assembling a team of "Hall of Very Good" talents like we always seem to do.

I won't be cheering for them, but i have prepared myself for the inevitable that players who will go down in the books as top 20, 10....heck...even five all generally win cups at some point.