Can a mini rebuild be done and is this the perfect year to do it?

[Fan69]

I think our position by the start of next year could look drastically different and better than where we currently sit and hence, the mini rebuild? but can it be done? ( whether management allows it is another subject )

I see a dearth of two things coming up through our system. I think that we can all agree our defensive depth issues have really been revealed. Secondly, besides Wolf, Coronato, Zary, ( Poirier I think is a couple of years away ) I dont see a lot of nhl regulars, but more specifically Middle to top six regulars.

I believe the reason we have this dearth started with the utterly ridiculous, preposterous, ill timed, poorly thought out mangle of management that was the Hamonic trade. then continued with constant picks going out for middling talent. Again I think ownership owns this one but again another topic.

What does this the summer look like? I have to run with some assumptions with this. OK does not come back, no indication of why or return so will stick with that. The Matty trade signees have not gone to management wanting out, or vice versa; we have them.

Trade Tanev. expected return first rounder and a b level prospect, possible roster player for money or other reasons. (Def, RW, C )

Lindholm wants out ( another assumption on rumours but his contract is coming and he would be highly desired) . traded expected return. first, 2nd, b level or better prospect.

Wolf has no reason not to be back up next year. Vladar traded. expected return. 3rd or 4th.

Toffoli. traded. expected return: low first. two seconds type of deal. however this would be a deadline deal, but if you can get into this draft why not?

best case scenario. between all tradable assets the return is a top six center, and a top three defensive young player or prospect. all of the trades would have a young player or prospect coming back. We could potentially walk out of a good draft with three first as well as a third that I dont think we have. Now I know a lot of posters are going to go we dont need more picks we need top five picks. While I get it its also the longest and most out of your hands approach since you depend on the lottery ball and our luck isnt that good. however with the top of this draft being forward heavy those picks a 15-30 could yield a high end forward as well as two defencemen since it doesnt look like any defencemen may go before ten. ( I could be wrong on that )

Ultimately we could add as many as half a dozen prospect on the level of Coronato. what about the roster though?

huby (expect much better from him next year)-kadri-tofolli
mangi-Backs ( with us for life)- Coronato ( or mystery new prospect ) Duer
Pelletier-Dube( mystery center )-Coleman
up for grabs - Rucicka - up for grabs

Andy-Han
(mystery defencemen) -Weegar
Zad- up for grabs or stetcher

Marky-Wolf

Now remember the mystery center and the mystery defencemen are young players maybe a little shy of taking those duties which would be the main target of the trades or they dont happen. Someone young that brings a new dimension to our team fighting for top six center with backs and Kadri ( I expect a much better year from Kadri next year ) as well as with
Weegar on defence. Even filling those spots we would have several young players pushing the bubble along with Zary and hopefully a couple of young defencemen would be rotating in and out instead of wasting picks on bottom pairing defencemen or resigning stone until he is 58.

Obviously some names are gone ( Ritchie, Lewis etc ) I see a young player on each line with a vet, the top line or whoever is the momentary top line center would have old vet Toffoli until deadline ( third option on the trades is a RW which were also lean on )

Now you can argue with the quality of the team to be sure but again thats with the addition of a young top six center ( who that looks like better hockey minds than me can maybe chime in ) as well as a top three top four defencemen.

I see a younger faster team, the addition of the extra picks and prospects from the trades could quickly refill the cupboard along with any surprises like Duehr seems to be a smart move particularly in this draft. Now can all those trades happen? certainly up for discussion. Could part of it happen and one of those first is next year as the deal happens at deadline? also up for discussion.

So is the mini rebuild possible ala the Hamilton trade except we have a defencemen and a arguable top line center in Lindholm to move as well as a few other assetts.

Could we right the ship in an offseason? Could Tre pull something like this out of red C ? What do you think?

[GreenLantern2814]

I think there’s a reason nobody else tried this before.

[Badgers Nose]

Last year was the right time.

[GioforPM]

Whether they are in or out there likely will be big player movement either off season or at TDL.

Out for sure: Lucic. Probably Stone, Lewis, Ritchie. I wouldn't mind Stecher again but it depends what he is asking for.

I'd try to move Tanev in any event. He's great but it's his last year on the deal, he's up in years and he does get hurt which throws out the combos.

You really need to see what Toffoli, Lindholm, Hanifin want. I suspect Lindy wants a big number - this is his big chance to get it. He has no impediments on trades so IMO he's very very easy to move. If you could trade Kadri and keep Lindholm sure, but that's a tall order. I think Toffoli and Hanifin will be much more affordable. Backs is here to stay.

Now, you could houseclean, and move everyone, but with long term deals for Huberdeau, Weegar, Markstrom, Kadri, Andersson, and 2 years left of Mangiapane, how effective is it?

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Whether they are in or out there likely will be big player movement either off season or at TDL.

Out for sure: Lucic. Probably Stone, Lewis, Ritchie. I wouldn't mind Stecher again but it depends what he is asking for.

I'd try to move Tanev in any event. He's great but it's his last year on the deal, he's up in years and he does get hurt which throws out the combos.

You really need to see what Toffoli, Lindholm, Hanifin want. I suspect Lindy wants a big number - this is his big chance to get it. He has no impediments on trades so IMO he's very very easy to move. If you could trade Kadri and keep Lindholm sure, but that's a tall order. I think Toffoli and Hanifin will be much more affordable. Backs is here to stay.

Now, you could houseclean, and move everyone, but with long term deals for Huberdeau, Weegar, Markstrom, Kadri, Andersson, and 2 years left of Mangiapane, how effective is it?

I see hubby and Kadri as well as markstrom being back to normal next year. Goaltending should be good, huby should be back to near point per game and Kadri with the new Center should be great depth with backs and Rucicka.

[butterfly]

I'd like to see what happens this season before thinking about all this.

[the-rasta-masta]

I think you're getting more than a 1st, a 2nd, and B level prospect for Lindholm. That aside, this team is still in the playoff hunt and if they make it a lot of things change, especially in terms of players wanting to stay.

[dissentowner]

The rebuild crowd never gives up do they? It isn't happening anytime in the near future.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The rebuild crowd never gives up do they? It isn't happening anytime in the near future.

The core of the team is essentially the same? One of our top players has to go I think this is a smart way to do it if you can find the partners. Also when I say prospects I should be more clear players under 25.

[topfiverecords]

I'll think about it on April 13th at 9 pm.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I think you're getting more than a 1st, a 2nd, and B level prospect for Lindholm. That aside, this team is still in the playoff hunt and if they make it a lot of things change, especially in terms of players wanting to stay.

While true it also conversely raises their trade value in the immediate aftermath of a run.

[Macho0978]

I think it all revolves around what Lindholm does.

Toffolli is having a big year but he's a winger and he can be replaced by Huberdeau having a bounce back year.

Hanifin is a good player but he is nothing special. I've been on the sell Hanifin train for 1.5 years or so and still think we missed an opportunity to sell high on him last year.

Without Lindholm, our centers would be very old and one of the worst groups in the league.

Also, I could see some teams behind us just passing us because they have more youth, better picks this year and cap situation is much better.

Washington - depends on who they draft but they should get a better player than we do. Good draft they might get a player that plays right away.

Nashville created cap space and is up prospects and picks

Detroit, Buffalo, Ottawa all could pass us.

We might be in a rebuild even if the team doesn't make the call to go for it simply because we are a bad team next year and depending on who wants out might not a have a choice.

[GioforPM]

Absent something bad happening to the Avs, Calgary doesn't go very far in the POs. And even a fair bit of success won't change Lindholm's mind if he thinks it's a big difference in paycheque elsewhere versus a hometown discount (for a team he's been with for only the same amount of time as Carolina).

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I think you're getting more than a 1st, a 2nd, and B level prospect for Lindholm. That aside, this team is still in the playoff hunt and if they make it a lot of things change, especially in terms of players wanting to stay.

I purposely undervalued as this is kind of the minimum we could get for Taney and lindholm. The trouble with lindholm is you have to replace him if he wants out.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Absent something bad happening to the Avs, Calgary doesn't go very far in the POs. And even a fair bit of success won't change Lindholm's mind if he thinks it's a big difference in paycheque elsewhere versus a hometown discount (for a team he's been with for only the same amount of time as Carolina).

Which might put the Flames in a situation even if they do not commit to a rebuild they are likely a bottom 10 team even if they try to go for the playoffs.

New GM though could spark a rebuild as it's not the new guys team

[Macho0978]

There is also 11 teams that could get Bedard. 6 of those 11 teams, if they get him likely are better than the Flames are next year.

Philly
Vancouver
Washington
Detroit
St Louis
Columbus

I also think Fantilli is likely to be a instant impact player. Any of those 6 teams get him they likely are better than the Flames. Especially if Lindholm wants out and is moved. Can't replace him at that salary and their cap situation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Which might put the Flames in a situation even if they do not commit to a rebuild they are likely a bottom 10 team even if they try to go for the playoffs.

New GM though could spark a rebuild as it's not the new guys team

The difficulty with a rebuild is the age/contract of some guys. They don't match with a complete overhaul and rebuild with newbies. They will still be eating pretty significnt cap space when new guys are RFAs.

Colorado won with all their key guys except Landeskog on RFA contracts. Two were sizable, but Mackinnon's was gold and Kadri was still under $5. they made a lot of hay with Nichuskin making 2.5 as well.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The difficulty with a rebuild is the age/contract of some guys. They don't match with a complete overhaul and rebuild with newbies. They will still be eating pretty significnt cap space when new guys are RFAs.

Colorado won with all their key guys except Landeskog on RFA contracts. Two were sizable, but Mackinnon's was gold and Kadri was still under $5. they made a lot of hay with Nichuskin making 2.5 as well.

It's probably going to be a SJ Sharks style rebuild. They are just going to be a bottom 10 team for a few years and need to wait until guys request trades, cap goes up or player have good years to trade them.

If the cap stays fairly flat, this team will be rebuilding for a few years.

I think if they start a rebuild (they will have no choice IMO if Lindholm is moved) that guys like Kadri and Huberdeau will be open to trades. Just need them to have a good year and they can be moved. Huberdeau for sure can be if he was having a typical Huberdeau season.

Kadri has 6 years left at $7 mil. If we commit to a rebuild the 2024 first will likely be a player we need to pay when his ELC is up. That would leave Kadri with 2 years left in his deal. At that point a buyout could be an option.

I expect the Flames won't go for the rebuild though until they are forced into it. That is the tough part because if we had tons of extra picks in the next few drafts, we could make it less painful.

[Harry Lime]

I think that the weegar-andersson top pairing experiment was a success. If you want a big return, his name is hanifin. I also think that you sell high on one of mangiapane or toffoli, but not both. I think to be successful, they need to stop using the fourth line as a throwaway line.

It would surprise me if they went for draft picks, given the age of the contracts they recently signed. I'd look for draft +3ish players that are in development hell.

I'd trade hanifin to Detroit for zadina+. Zadina has been ill used in a Bennett like fashion there, and could pop. The add would be significant. Detroit lacks a true top pairing LD, using walman in that role, and edvidsson a ways away.

Trade mangiapane to Philly for cam York. They have andrae and zamula on the way, and he is getting buried. I would seea decent add coming as well, and Philly would love eat bread.

Do whatever you have to to get Isaac Lundstrom out of Anaheim. He has Backstrom written all over him and his cost will never be lower. Use some of the collateral from the other trades.

Hanifin and manguapane out, and zadina, York and lundstrom in. Let all old dudes go to ufa.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Fan69

I see hubby and Kadri as well as markstrom being back to normal next year. Goaltending should be good, huby should be back to near point per game and Kadri with the new Center should be great depth with backs and Rucicka.

I think you're relying on something I doubt will happen. Also, I don't get the love for Rucicka. He's done nothing to warrant it. Losing Lindholm will be a big loss. I don't see an improved Flames team next year. Same old, same old.