2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by memphusk

No they won't. They haven't and won't. This isn't Oiler bull####.

Seem like the Oilers own you

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Agreed, but that does not apply to a team like the Flames.

Correct.

[cannon7]

The Flames have a mediocre management team and the results are expectedly mediocre. Until that changes, we should not expect anything more or less.

Presuming the Cup is the goal, and that is debatable league-wide, I would argue that Detroit and Dallas are being mismanaged similar to the Flames. Dallas is a closer analog to the Flames, but I would say they've drafted better given similar draft positions. Detroit has actually been in rebuild mode for a decade and keeps acquiring middling talent (Copp, Kubalik, Perron) resulting in them being a bubble team. I think Yzerman this trade deadline is now officially going full rebuild by unloading middling draftees like Bertuzzi and Hronek. They've effectively wasted Larkin's prime years (he's now 26) and they didn't have the core around him needed to compete anyway.

[All In Good Time]

Oiler and Coyote fans clamouring for tanking
Cute

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Planning to be bad at the right times is a necessity in today's NHL. Failing to do so in the name of respectability is just terrible strategy.

What do you mean by planning to be bad at the right time? Are you saying Tampa, Colorado, Carolina, Boston have all ruined their teams by not being having a shot at Bedard?

The idea of committing to a rebuild every so often, I think that's very legitimate when your top players get to a certain age. But that doesn't mean trading every player you have and drafting #1 for multiple years. Or planning in advance to have an awful team 6 years down the road when Johnny hotshot who's ripping up peewee might be in the draft.

People are congratulating the Kings on this last rebuild. If you look at it I don't think they ever tried to be a last place team. They kept Kopitar and Doughty, even Dustin Brown. But traded off a lot of other guys at the end of their deals like Muzzin, Martinez, and Carter. But they also traded picks for Arvidsson, signed Danault, and gave a first for Fiala to sign to a big ticket. They're not in the playoffs because Villardi and Byfield and a number one overall pick are leading the charge. It's those other three plus the emergence of Kempe whom they drafted with a late first when they were still trying to compete leading that team.

Granted it's a big attractive U.S. City so they can leverage that to accelerate things. The Rangers are similar where their top picks are not the reason they turned things around. It's them getting Fox for a bargain, signing Panarin, and stealing Zibanejad from Ottawa.

In terms of your small market outpost types...I guess you could say Edmonton might be the one who is closest to putting together a team that competes for multiple years. But that hinges largely on how they do this year. Winnipeg was inconsistent getting to the playoffs and got past round 1 twice. I think in time Ottawa will have proven to jump the gun with their Debrincant and Chychryn trades AND not get to the upper half of the East. For me I think Edmonton is mostly McDavid luck, and I don't think they planned for that with their shrewd management.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Oiler and Coyote fans clamouring for tanking
Cute

Flames fans clamouring for missing the playoffs as often as they make them, while winning a round (on average) once every 6 years. How cute.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The Flames have a mediocre management team and the results are expectedly mediocre. Until that changes, we should not expect anything more or less.

Presuming the Cup is the goal, and that is debatable league-wide, I would argue that Detroit and Dallas are being mismanaged similar to the Flames. Dallas is a closer analog to the Flames, but I would say they've drafted better given similar draft positions. Detroit has actually been in rebuild mode for a decade and keeps acquiring middling talent (Copp, Kubalik, Perron) resulting in them being a bubble team. I think Yzerman this trade deadline is now officially going full rebuild by unloading middling draftees like Bertuzzi and Hronek. They've effectively wasted Larkin's prime years (he's now 26) and they didn't have the core around him needed to compete anyway.

Detroit’s interesting in this conversation because they are a team that was intentionally bad for a number of years. They brought back Yzerman whom was placed on a pedestal for years here during his time with the Lightning. ‘That’s how you do it’ ‘the Lighting are smart and the Flames are dumb’ was a pretty commonly held belief around here 3-5 years ago.

Fast forward and the Red Wings are now trying to expedite their own rebuild by surrounding a young group of talent, coincidentally 4th and 6th overall picks, with free agent signings. Sounds very Flamsey. Has Yzerman gone senile, or is it that there are many ways to build a contender and each teams path is different?

Point is being so rigid in a belief that you can not win without a top three, or multiples of them, totally disregards circumstance.

What happens to this belief if Boston wins the cup?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

On purpose or not, the Flames did tank and got a bunch of high picks that got them Monahan, Bennett , Tkachuk and the pick that got Hamilton. On top of that they got Gaudreau, a legit star level player. Treliving just couldn’t fill out the rest of the team to win. Wasted resources on Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic and garbage goalies.

That era is over. They will try with the current bunch for a couple years and go in tank mode whether they like it or not

The problem was the Flames didn’t tank for long or hard enough. They still kept around Gio, Brodie and etc around which made them competitive too many nights. So instead really stinking and getting to draft the likes of Mackinnon or Barkov or Draisaitl and etc, they instead ended up with Monahan and Bennett who ended up being decent, weren’t franchise altering players and the organization made big bets on them trying to build around those 2 picks.

In an alternate universe, if they ended up with a 1-2 punch of Mackinnon and Draisaitl instead, coupling these guys with a Gaudreau and/or a Tkachuk or whoever, then this team could’ve probably ended the rebuild early and went places.

So that’s probably the moral of the story. Your management group has to ultimately know what they have. If it’s not enough, continue to build patiently until you feel like you have enough so that way, you’ll be confident that if your guy goes ends up going mono e mono like Mackinnon vs Monahan in 2019, that your guy will come out on top in the end.

Find the right foundation and then build the house. Don’t build the house on a weak or crumbling foundation because no matter how nice the house looks in the end, it’ll end up being a pile of rubble when it’s all said and done.

[Sylvanfan]

Colorado has become elite more due to Makar than MacKinnon and how is it not lucky that the guy they got 4th ended up being the best player in his draft? They did keep drafting and didn't trade their future first round picks. But I don't think they signed Iginla after drafting MacKinnon and Landeskog, and Duchene with top 3 picks thinking it would make them so bad they could add Makar.

I don't see you crapping on the Hamilton trade even though the behavior was completely against a rebuild.

You just cherry pick things to fit the narrative you're trying to sell

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Colorado has become elite more due to Makar than MacKinnon and how is it not lucky that the guy they got 4th ended up being the best player in his draft? They did keep drafting and didn't trade their future first round picks. But I don't think they signed Iginla after drafting MacKinnon and Landeskog, and Duchene with top 3 picks thinking it would make them so bad they could add Makar.

I don't see you crapping on the Hamilton trade even though the behavior was completely against a rebuild.

You just cherry pick things to fit the narrative you're trying to sell

I literally had just finished dumping on the Hamilton trade 2 minutes prior to jumping into this thread. I’ve always been of the belief that this organization rushed the rebuild. I’m pretty sure I used this exact same analogy 2 or 3 years ago.

Secondly, Mackinnon is an absolute horse in the playoffs. Makar is pretty damn phenomenal too, so I don’t want to take anything away from him. But MacKinnon is like 6th all time in points per game in playoff scoring history. This guy elevates his game/intensity when the calendar flips over. He’s got the elite power forward, competitiveness and speed game so no matter what style you want to play, he’s got it covered. I’d take him any day on my team.

Then Sakic throws in Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog and etc and yeah, it’s not surprising that they go from contender to one of the most dominant playoff runs in NHL history.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Flames fans clamouring for missing the playoffs as often as they make them, while winning a round (on average) once every 6 years. How cute.

Ha ha
Ok
Continue to cheer for the coyotes then
I still think racing to get your hands on the shiniest unproven 18 year old should be left to the cougars on 17th

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Colorado has become elite more due to Makar than MacKinnon and how is it not lucky that the guy they got 4th ended up being the best player in his draft? They did keep drafting and didn't trade their future first round picks. But I don't think they signed Iginla after drafting MacKinnon and Landeskog, and Duchene with top 3 picks thinking it would make them so bad they could add Makar.

I don't see you crapping on the Hamilton trade even though the behavior was completely against a rebuild.

You just cherry pick things to fit the narrative you're trying to sell

If the Avs have ever actually tanked they’ve gone about it in strange ways. Bad year in 08-09, draft Duchene. But mid range year the next year so they miss out on the Taylor/Tyler business. Then they flop again in time for Landeskog and the next year trade away the pick. Funny there - if they tank they get Yakupov or Galchenyuk, but there were decent picks in the bottom of the first - Wilson, Teravainen, Vasilevsky. So then they flop again this time hard enough to get Mackinnon. Play well the next year but it’s a mediocre draft (and their pick is a bust - no games and they could have had Pasternak 2 picks later). Next year they fluke out Rantanen at 10.

It’s a strange draft history IMO.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I literally had just finished dumping on the Hamilton trade 2 minutes prior to jumping into this thread. I’ve always been of the belief that this organization rushed the rebuild. I’m pretty sure I used this exact same analogy 2 or 3 years ago.

Secondly, Mackinnon is an absolute horse in the playoffs. Makar is pretty damn phenomenal too, so I don’t want to take anything away from him. But MacKinnon is like 6th all time in points per game in playoff scoring history. This guy elevates his game/intensity when the calendar flips over. He’s got the elite power forward, competitiveness and speed game so no matter what style you want to play, he’s got it covered. I’d take him any day on my team.

Then Sakic throws in Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog and etc and yeah, it’s not surprising that they go from contender to one of the most dominant playoff runs in NHL history.

Yup.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Seem like the Oilers own you

I don't believe the Oilers own anyone.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

How tanking is so romanticized on this forum is beyond me.

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Hasn't every cup winning team this millenium had a top 3 pick?
Haven't 90%+ of them had a top two pick?
Haven't most of them had a 1st OA pick?
Haven't most of them had multiple top picks?

St. Louis is the only real exception, and even they had a 3OA and 4OA on their team.

Yep, I don't see how that is romanticizing. You pretty much need to be bad to be good in the NHL if you want to win a cup. You can't just push each year for the playoffs, you need those franchise reset years.

I like the stats that a poster showed a few months ago about how the best rebuilds are about two separate "bad" periods. You need to bottom out once, acquire a potential franchise player or two, then draft high again a couple years later and get a star player or two more. Then you've got star/elite players coming up with separation between them.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Planning to be bad at the right times is a necessity in today's NHL. Failing to do so in the name of respectability is just terrible strategy.

This.

[Enoch Root]

the Bruins have entered the chat

[dino7c]

Wait people are using the Yotes and an example of how to build a team??

yeah so shrewd

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Wait people are using the Yotes and an example of how to build a team??

yeah so shrewd

I havent read through the last couple pages, where was this?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Wait people are using the Yotes and an example of how to build a team??

yeah so shrewd

what?