2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I don’t know how much they spent on other stuff so I can’t comment. I agree on their cheap building.

But blame it on other spending is just as bad if not worse than me saying Treliving had the ability to spend max on players and wasted them on Neal, Lucic, and about to on Huberdeau etc….

Neal and Lucic are effectively the same and it’s far too soon to label Huberdeau a ‘bust’ if that’s the term you want to use. If anything I’d commend Treliving for wriggling out of an untenable situation with Neal and dumping him on their primary rival, no less. Regardless, the Flames can turn the page on that this offseason. I would also bet the decision to take the Panthers offer over a future based package and the subsequent contract extension for Huberdeau was not Treliving’s decision alone. Overall direction to stay competitive would have come from ownership, I would bet, because that’s how they’ve carried themselves for the past 20 years regardless of who the GM is.

No GM bats 1.000. They all make their fair share of mistakes and if they haven’t, it’s probably because they’ve been on the job for two days. In other words, just wait. That’s the cost of doing business as a GM.

On balance I’d say Treliving has done about as well as one should expect given the hand he’s been dealt from ownership. I suspect he walks this offseason. If the Flames were smart they would offer him the POHO, if he wants it. But if Treliving does walk, I think that will say a lot about how this organization is run.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Come on we all know the home grown talent thing is mostly because of guys leaving over geography
Gaudreau, Fox, Tkachuk, or injury...Monahan

Yeah, I don't disagree - but those things happened, and the Flames then chose a decidedly different path than building internally. It made for a fun summer, but I wouldn't say it has left the team in a good position today/for tomorrow. There were also clear pivot points in the team's history that they chose not to do because they (incorrectly) believed they "right there"...but they weren't, and things eroded.

So while Tkachuk (homerun), Gaudreau (homerun), Monahan (good pick), Bennett (decent pick) were good enough to build a mediocre team, they didn't have the picks required to build a Championship team.

Timing of your draft picks is also key. 2023 would've been a great time to plan on a down year, but again - they chose a decidedly different path and hobbled together this weird, old roster. They focused on the today because they incorrectly believed in their team...again.

At some point I hope the owner(s) realize that this team doesn't have the bones/the foundation that Championship teams are built on. It's pretty damn evident. We're now seeing teams that did go through entire rebuilds now out pace us.

New Jersey, New York, Los Angeles all started rebuilds during this Treliving era, and they are now better teams than us. You could argue that Buffalo did a failed rebuild, and then another rebuild in that time and are now better than us. Edmonton's extended rebuild has also equated to more/equal success in this Treliving era, and they're better positioned than us as well. Throw in Toronto's rebuild into the Treliving era too, as their organization is in better condition today than ours (although team success in that stretch is certainly up for debate...both teams have had pretty much no playoff success).

The Flames desire to not rebuild correctly has proven to be the absolute incorrect path. Simply drafting 3 times in the top-6 (6th, 3rd, 6th) in a 4 year span is not rebuilding - especially when one of those draft years was a bad year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Neal and Lucic are effectively the same and it’s far too soon to label Huberdeau a ‘bust’ if that’s the term you want to use. If anything I’d commend Treliving for wriggling out of an untenable situation with Neal and dumping him on their primary rival, no less. Regardless, the Flames can turn the page on that this offseason. I would also bet the decision to take the Panthers offer over a future based package and the subsequent contract extension for Huberdeau was not Treliving’s decision alone. Overall direction to stay competitive would have come from ownership, I would bet, because that’s how they’ve carried themselves for the past 20 years regardless of who the GM is.

No GM bats 1.000. They all make their fair share of mistakes and if they haven’t, it’s probably because they’ve been on the job for two days. In other words, just wait. That’s the cost of doing business as a GM.

On balance I’d say Treliving has done about as well as one should expect given the hand he’s been dealt from ownership. I suspect he walks this offseason. If the Flames were smart they would offer him the POHO, if he wants it. But if Treliving does walk, I think that will say a lot about how this organization is run.

I swear a lot of posters are forgetting the post trade tirades on here where the deal was a failure UNLESS Huberdeau signed long term. Too lazy to look but I wonder if there’s some overlap with the critics after a tough year.

Also, there were a lot of people who called the Toffoli deal a bust last year. Seems pretty good now. IMO Huberdeau’s just as capable of a rebound with a full off season to prepare for Calgary, and a more stable lineup.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I don't disagree - but those things happened, and the Flames chose a decidedly different path than building internally. It made for a fun summer, but I wouldn't say it has left the team in a good position today/for tomorrow. There were also clear pivot points in the team's history that they chose not to do because they (incorrectly) believed they "right there"...but they weren't, and things eroded.

So while Tkachuk (homerun), Gaudreau (homerun), Monahan (good pick), Bennett (decent pick) were good enough to build a mediocre team, they didn't have the picks required to build a Championship team.

Timing of your draft picks is also key. 2023 would've been a great time to plan on a down year, but again - they chose a decidedly different path and hobbled together this weird, old roster. They focused on the today because they incorrectly believed in their team...again.

I get your point but fast forward two years and the Glames could have a decent roster of homegrown players.

Backlund, Mangiapane, Dube, Anderson, Kylington, Pelletier, Coronato, Wolf, Zary.
Add in a surprise or two, Piorier and/or Kuznetzov or another player, things can look a lot different.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I get your point but fast forward two years and the Glames could have a decent roster of homegrown players.

Backlund, Mangiapane, Dube, Anderson, Kylington, Pelletier, Coronato, Wolf, Zary.
Add in a surprise or two, Piorier and/or Kuznetzov or another player, things can look a lot different.

There's no Mackinnon, Makar, Stamkos, Hedman, McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Tkachuk, Barkov etc. in that group. That's the makings of a mediocre/poor team.

The team needs elite, franchise players drafted at the top of strong draft years - and then they need to continue to draft and develop value through their later picks (which I think they've done a good job of - but you just can't overcome the lack of top picks).

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

There's no Mackinnon, Makar, Stamkos, Hedman, McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Tkachuk, Barkov etc. in that group. That's the makings of a mediocre/poor team.

The team needs elite, franchise players drafted at the top of strong draft years - and then they need to continue to draft and develop value through their later picks (which I think they've done a good job of - but you just can't overcome the lack of top picks).

Sure. A huge part of this is the Flames simply have not been lucky when it comes to the draft lottery. They didn’t ‘win’ when they were at their low point. Even the Bennett draft, didn’t they drop a spot? I could be wrong on that.

The Flames haven’t had the good fortune to win like Carolina did with Svechnikov, Dallas with Hiskanen, or the Flyers with Nolan (despite that turning out the way it did for them).

That said, I don’t subscribe to the theory that you need a top 3 pick, or multiples of them to win. Every year there are franchise altering players taken outside the top 3-5 picks. The Flames 2016 draft was exceptional. Tkachuk, Dube, Fox. It’s a shame things turned out the way they did but if Tkachuk and Fox are Flsmes today, they won that draft with an exclamation point. Point being there’s several ways to build a cup contender. Top 3 picks in the right year go a long way, no argument there, but if that’s your plan, you very easily can end up like the Sabres or Oilers for a decade and there’s no sign whatsoever the Glsmes ownership will tolerate that.

If the Flames do win a lottery one of these years it will be because the balls bounced their way. Not because of a plan. At least that’s my two cents.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You can add Kylington to that list.

And Bennett

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I swear a lot of posters are forgetting the post trade tirades on here where the deal was a failure UNLESS Huberdeau signed long term. Too lazy to look but I wonder if there’s some overlap with the critics after a tough year.

Also, there were a lot of people who called the Toffoli deal a bust last year. Seems pretty good now. IMO Huberdeau’s just as capable of a rebound with a full off season to prepare for Calgary, and a more stable lineup.

Im in a fantasy league with a bunch of guys from outside of Calgary where the draft is auction based. Huberdeau is, without question, an incredible buy low option next year.

I think a lot went wrong or not as planned, obviously, but I would not be surprised in the least to see him back to 90 points next year.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Goriders

And Bennett

Well, Bennett was traded. As far as the guys who are on the roster today who were drafted by the Flames, Kylington is in that group is my point. He not being here has nothing to do with Treliving.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So while Tkachuk (homerun), Gaudreau (homerun), Monahan (good pick), Bennett (decent pick) were good enough to build a mediocre team, they didn't have the picks required to build a Championship team.

Mediocre?

From 2011 to 2016 they drafted 2 Hart trophy finalists - Tkachuk will be there this year for sure. Plus a Norris winner, plus a couple more top 4 D. 3 30 goal forwards, and Dube likely 20.

Picks are not the issue. Keeping the team together in small market long winter western Canada is. Could argue development, too. Tanking will not solve those problems.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Mediocre?

From 2011 to 2016 they drafted 2 Hart trophy finalists - Tkachuk will be there this year for sure. Plus a Norris winner, plus a couple more top 4 D. 3 30 goal forwards, and Dube likely 20.

Picks are not the issue. Keeping the team together in small market long winter western Canada is. Could argue development, too. Tanking will not solve those problems.

Once again
Tanking is for the lazy and unimaginative. The only thing it guarantees is losses

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Once again
Tanking is for the lazy and unimaginative. The only thing it guarantees is losses

I remember when people watched hockey because they liked it.

All this talk of tanking to get franchise players to win cups sounds like big city 'sports fans' thinking. Where folks just go to the hot ticket without even knowing what sport they are watching.

Flames sell a ton of seats sweaters and merch. People like the product. Most people go to games to be entertained (and whether the Flames currently are is a more relevant question IMO). They just need to keep the average hockey fan happy and Flames will be fine even without a Cup.

Should we tank? Absolutely not. The people that think we should are just playing with other people's money. Give them the business and with even a modicum of acumen they would do the same things the current regime does.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

There's no Mackinnon, Makar, Stamkos, Hedman, McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Tkachuk, Barkov etc. in that group. That's the makings of a mediocre/poor team.

The team needs elite, franchise players drafted at the top of strong draft years - and then they need to continue to draft and develop value through their later picks (which I think they've done a good job of - but you just can't overcome the lack of top picks).

Thing is, Flames could have tanked in those years and still gotten Drouin, Patrick, Filatov, Kane, Strome, Puljujarvi, etc. They in fact drafted Tkachuk, of course, and you could argue they tanked and still missed Draisaitl and Barkov.

As it is, the Flames have on their roster the 5th overall from Mackinnon’s year, 5th from McDavid’s, 7th from Hedman’s. They have a 3OA in Huberdeau as well, of course.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thing is, Flames could have tanked in those years and still gotten Drouin, Patrick, Filatov, Kane, Strome, Puljujarvi, etc. They in fact drafted Tkachuk, of course, and you could argue they tanked and still missed Draisaitl and Barkov.

As it is, the Flames have on their roster the 5th overall from Mackinnon’s year, 5th from McDavid’s, 7th from Hedman’s. They have a 3OA in Huberdeau as well, of course.

Meh. Tkachuk is still the best. Tough. Rough. Better than us.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I remember when people watched hockey because they liked it.

All this talk of tanking to get franchise players to win cups sounds like big city 'sports fans' thinking. Where folks just go to the hot ticket without even knowing what sport they are watching.

Flames sell a ton of seats sweaters and merch. People like the product. Most people go to games to be entertained (and whether the Flames currently are is a more relevant question IMO). They just need to keep the average hockey fan happy and Flames will be fine even without a Cup.

Should we tank? Absolutely not. The people that think we should are just playing with other people's money. Give them the business and with even a modicum of acumen they would do the same things the current regime does.

Bang on! Tanking is for quitters/losers.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Bang on! Tanking is for quitters/losers.

And oilers!!


Which
On second thought is the same thing I guess

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

There's no Mackinnon, Makar, Stamkos, Hedman, McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Tkachuk, Barkov etc. in that group. That's the makings of a mediocre/poor team.

The team needs elite, franchise players drafted at the top of strong draft years - and then they need to continue to draft and develop value through their later picks (which I think they've done a good job of - but you just can't overcome the lack of top picks).

Please show me one recent Stanley Cup winner that tanked within 7 years of winning.

[Burning Beard]

How tanking is so romanticized on this forum is beyond me.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I swear a lot of posters are forgetting the post trade tirades on here where the deal was a failure UNLESS Huberdeau signed long term. Too lazy to look but I wonder if there’s some overlap with the critics after a tough year.

Also, there were a lot of people who called the Toffoli deal a bust last year. Seems pretty good now. IMO Huberdeau’s just as capable of a rebound with a full off season to prepare for Calgary, and a more stable lineup.

It’s easy to be an armchair QB.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

How tanking is so romanticized on this forum is beyond me.

Set the bar high.