I was just reading on another forum that Chinese state media is reporting that the deal they offered Zelenskyy and Putin was to let Russia annex Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts, then two Ukraines would be formed similar to North and South Korea. Ukraine east of the Dnieper would be completely demilitarized and subject to Russian foreign policy, and China would provide security assurances. West Ukraine would be free to pursue EU and NATO inclusion.
I won't be providing links because honestly, none of them looked reliable and it could just be BS, but if this is indeed the plan China provided beyond their vague 12-step program, there is no way Ukraine or anyone other than Russia would want to accept that.
That sounds unbelievable. In the sense that without proper sources I'm betting it's BS. It sounds like something someone on the internet would make up, not like a peace plan at all.
"Demilitarized East Ukraine subject to Russian foreign policy", just... what? That's not a thing. Either it's an independent country or its part of one, and that's neither. That's not at all what North Korea is, that's very much its own country.
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That sounds unbelievable. In the sense that without proper sources I'm betting it's BS. It sounds like something someone on the internet would make up, not like a peace plan at all.
"Demilitarized East Ukraine subject to Russian foreign policy", just... what? That's not a thing. Either it's an independent country or its part of one, and that's neither. That's not at all what North Korea is, that's very much its own country.
Yeah, anything like that claim should be super easy to verify just with a link to the source.
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That sounds unbelievable. In the sense that without proper sources I'm betting it's BS. It sounds like something someone on the internet would make up, not like a peace plan at all.
"Demilitarized East Ukraine subject to Russian foreign policy", just... what? That's not a thing. Either it's an independent country or its part of one, and that's neither. That's not at all what North Korea is, that's very much its own country.
North Korean is also very far from being demilitarized. It might be the most militarized nation on the planet.
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That sounds unbelievable. In the sense that without proper sources I'm betting it's BS. It sounds like something someone on the internet would make up, not like a peace plan at all.
"Demilitarized East Ukraine subject to Russian foreign policy", just... what? That's not a thing. Either it's an independent country or its part of one, and that's neither. That's not at all what North Korea is, that's very much its own country.
while the proposal is utter bull#### I have absolutely no difficulty in thinking China and Russia would propose it and also genuinely think that Ukraine should be forced by the west into accepting it
while the proposal is utter bull#### I have absolutely no difficulty in thinking China and Russia would propose it and also genuinely think that Ukraine should be forced by the west into accepting it
....?
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while the proposal is utter bull#### I have absolutely no difficulty in thinking China and Russia would propose it and also genuinely think that Ukraine should be forced by the west into accepting it
Ukraine should just give up Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea?
Have we learned nothing from WWII?
Putin might be content for a little bit, but he’ll use the time to build up his military and plot his next military exercise, all while committing horrific acts of genocide in Luhansk and Donetsk.
I think the West needs to support the Ukraine until they either push Russia out, Putin meets his demise, or they decide they can no longer fight.
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Wouldn't a ceasefire in the present be to Ukraine's advantage on the battlefield, considering so much of the equipment they're waiting on is still many months away? I was under the impression that Ukraine is going to be much, much stronger six or more months from now when they have an assortment of tanks, jets etc. that they don't have now. I can't imagine Russia is going to have an equivalent increase in firepower over the same time.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Wouldn't a ceasefire in the present be to Ukraine's advantage on the battlefield, considering so much of the equipment they're waiting on is still many months away? I was under the impression that Ukraine is going to be much, much stronger six or more months from now when they have an assortment of tanks, jets etc. that they don't have now. I can't imagine Russia is going to have an equivalent increase in firepower over the same time.
Yes, Ukraine will be stronger in the future. But it would be folly to give Russia a reprieve now. They should continue to whip Russia's ass, and then deliver the death blow when the big guns show up.
Ukraine should just give up Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea?
I think both Russia and China clearly believe smaller countries should know their place and do as they are told, in their mind Ukraine is just a pawn to be divided up or told what to do by the 'west' and themselves, I doubt either think we care about Ukraine any more than they do
I think both Russia and China clearly believe smaller countries should know their place and do as they are told, in their mind Ukraine is just a pawn to be divided up or told what to do by the 'west' and themselves, I doubt either think we care about Ukraine any more than they do
I misunderstood.
I originally thought that you genuinely think that Ukraine should be forced by the west into accepting it, not Russia and China.
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The stories of Russian crackdowns on free speech are becoming increasingly unhinged, ranging from heartbreaking to almost laughable.
We're getting into true Stalin-levels of oppression.
It's a good reminder that not only is there dissent in Russia against the war and the government, but that it's incredibly difficult to estimate the current mood of the people there, because they are simply not allowed to talk about it.
Any information coming out of Russia is also very likely incredibly distorted.
Putin is however increasingly worried about the loyalty of his people, which I guess is the one upside of this horror.
Last edited by Itse; 03-27-2023 at 12:55 AM.
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Should have stayed the F home or gone after the people who sent you there, instead of dying needlessly for some goof dictator.
Yea I don't get it, by now doesn't the average Russian soldier know that Ukraine is a deathtrap? Why is it preferable for them to continue to go there and die instead of deserting at the very least?
The Yaroslavl Motor Plant that supplies all the diesel engines for Russian military's GAZ fuel trucks, troop transports, armored cars, and mobile missile launchers, just had a smoking accident. Whole engine plant is burning.
