Sutter is the problem

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He was done the moment he out weaseled Treliving for that last contract


He didn’t have to say it

From when Tkachuk signed in Sept 2019. He could have been lying through his teeth, but at some point you have to take folks at their word. Treliving didn't want to part with Frolik

"We could've done a longer term, however many years, but this was the deal that was going to keep the number within the [$81.5 million NHL salary cap], and to me, we have such a great group here, so many great guys. I want to win with this group. I went to too many Stanley Cup parties, being from St. Louis, this summer, and every time you go to them you think of how great it would be to do it with this group.

https://www.nhl.com/news/matthew-tka...al/c-308097816

[bluejays]

@flamesgod (no idea why quoting sometimes doesn't work), Wolf could be, but I'd say the Flames development system has to change. If they build around him they have to have a good set of D in front of him to not ruin him. Perhaps splitting the time between him and someone else. But also practicing patience. I could be wrong and it could be an incorrect assessment of the Flames organization, but I don't think they've been developing players to their potential in the past 5 seasons or so. What level that problem is at (AHL or NHL), is up for debate, but if they go into rebuilding mode they have to up their support budget up to provide that guidance and ecosystem to build these guys up instead of hoping the fittest survive.

[ricardodw]

There are a lot of Flames that have done well under Sutter (close to career season or at least top 3 in their careers)

Toffoli
Backlund
Lindholm
Andersson
Hannifin
Dube
Coleman


These are guys that other than their age Tofolli, Backlund and Coleman would be easy to trade for value based on 2022-23.

The only guys on this list that are signed past next season are Coleman and Andersson


It would seem that having 7 players that are playing close to their potential does not suggest that there is a general failure of the coaching staff.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There are a lot of Flames that have done well under Sutter (close to career season or at least top 3 in their careers)

Toffoli
Backlund
Lindholm
Andersson
Hannifin
Dube
Coleman


These are guys that other than their age Tofolli, Backlund and Coleman would be easy to trade for value based on 2022-23.

The only guys on this list that are signed past next season are Coleman and Andersson


It would seem that having 7 players that are playing close to their potential does not suggest that there is a general failure of the coaching staff.

except that's only 7 of the 18 skaters on any given night. Although I'd say you could easily include Lewis as he's had a strong year.

Less than half.

Also, probably the three most important players (due to salary) had terrible years: Markstrom, Huberdeau, Kadri. Of your list, I'd argue only Toffoli is notably better than what we should have expected from him.

I still take issue with "Sutter is THE problem". He's A problem, and a big one - but he's far from the only problem.

[Strange Brew]

Rather enlightening to hear some of the players publicly talk about individual accountability and lack of effort.

Not hard to figure out who is not very popular in that dressing room this season. I love Backlund and hope he retires a Flame. But for those who insist he be named captain, I’d be curious to hear how he is leading that room currently given the obvious issues.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Not even his assistant coaches can challenge him it's a bunch of yes men.

You need coaches to challenge you and have that dialogue golisten to what Peters said when he came here. You can't just have people go yes sir Darryl your way or the high way.

Dude. You have a Lucic profile pic. You’ve twisted yourself into the world’s most complicated pretzel this last month and now you’re not sure which direction you’re looking. But hey, at least you have reached the all time PPD record here on Calgarypuck!

[Hockey_Ninja]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1639395802778042369

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

except that's only 7 of the 18 skaters on any given night. Although I'd say you could easily include Lewis as he's had a strong year.

Less than half.

Also, probably the three most important players (due to salary) had terrible years: Markstrom, Huberdeau, Kadri. Of your list, I'd argue only Toffoli is notably better than what we should have expected from him.

I still take issue with "Sutter is THE problem". He's A problem, and a big one - but he's far from the only problem.

You expected Andersson to play more than 24 minutes a game and score 11 goals and 50 pts?

Backlund needs 4 pts in 9 games to match the 53 pts he had in 2016-17.

Dube has a chance to match his NHL pt total he put up in his first 200 NHL games.

Coleman needs 1 pt in 9 games to match his career high.


Along with Tofolli that is 5 guys that are having career years.

Hannifin and Lindholm slid back from last year but are still above what they produced in their careers before last year.

That is a lot of guys having career years.

For example on Vegas there is Chandler Stephenson that has dropped off from his 2021-22 career year and no one else having a career year.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Rather enlightening to hear some of the players publicly talk about individual accountability and lack of effort.

Not hard to figure out who is not very popular in that dressing room this season.

Am I totally missing something...haven't seen or heard anything like that...so now I am curious! (I haven't really been paying attention, either...)

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

https://twitter.com/user/status/1639395802778042369

While still a telling stat, and indicative of the deep and comprehensive list of poor decisions made by ill equipped teams of bad managers hired by the Flames, the average coaching tenure in the NHL is 2.4 years.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Rather enlightening to hear some of the players publicly talk about individual accountability and lack of effort.

Not hard to figure out who is not very popular in that dressing room this season. I love Backlund and hope he retires a Flame. But for those who insist he be named captain, I’d be curious to hear how he is leading that room currently given the obvious issues.

I don't know how he is in the room, but he generally shows up to play, he often shows up better in big games and against the Oilers, and he has been a loyal and positive contributor for years. He seems like a pretty good model of what the Flames could hope for from anyone.

Was there anything said that suggested teammates were calling him out?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

https://twitter.com/user/status/1639395802778042369

I know some people will see that as an indictment of the players, but players change over time - we're talking about hundreds of guys over that time frame.

IMO, this is an indictment on the organization, and how they have viewed coaching. I don't think it's a high enough priority, and I suspect they have tried to live on a budget. In the long run, there is a big cost to that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It certainly doesn't sound like they did.

In case you haven't noticed, you are arguing against yourself with this quote (if you've forgotten, you were trying to argue that Zito had no intention of signing Huberdeau)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

In case you haven't noticed, you are arguing against yourself with this quote (if you've forgotten, you were trying to argue that Zito had no intention of signing Huberdeau)

Not really. Of course a GM being cornered by an agent at the draft is going to blow smoke up his ass. It's not really the time and place to get into it. Even if you take Zito at his word, his failure to follow-up like he said he would, would indicate it wasn't the priority he said it was. Actions speak louder than words.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Not really. Of course a GM being cornered by an agent at the draft is going to blow smoke up his ass. It's not really the time and place to get into it. Even if you take Zito at his word, his failure to follow-up like he said he would, would indicate it wasn't the priority he said it was. Actions speak louder than words.

Again, look at the time line. You're making #### up to fit your narrative. I'm done with this.

[domenichelly]

I am sorry, but can anyone explain why Sutter almost never came to Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli line? Or Elias gave ultimatum that he does not want to play with him and Sutter said ok to him best forward?

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by domenichelly

I am sorry, but can anyone explain why Sutter almost never came to Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli line? Or Elias gave ultimatum that he does not want to play with him and Sutter said ok to him best forward?

Those three didn’t have great chemistry at the start of the year but I feel that they should’ve been kept together to see if that chemistry can form. They’re your three most offensively talented players, you might as well keep them together and allow them to figure it out

[Your Calgary Flames!]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Rather enlightening to hear some of the players publicly talk about individual accountability and lack of effort.

Not hard to figure out who is not very popular in that dressing room this season. I love Backlund and hope he retires a Flame. But for those who insist he be named captain, I’d be curious to hear how he is leading that room currently given the obvious issues.

This is my exact opinion. Just because Backlund is a career Flame and seems like a great guy, does he get the same respect out of the team as perhaps some others? I have played on a my fair share of teams and the nice guys typically don’t always garner the same respect as certain other personalities.

[Southside403]

Keep it going Sutter I'm rooting for you always have and will hope to a miracle coming

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I know some people will see that as an indictment of the players, but players change over time - we're talking about hundreds of guys over that time frame.

IMO, this is an indictment on the organization, and how they have viewed coaching. I don't think it's a high enough priority, and I suspect they have tried to live on a budget. In the long run, there is a big cost to that.

You only have to list the coaches hired in the time frame to realize why it's been this way. The organization has done an extremely poor job when it comes to hiring the best head coaches as Crisp and King may be the only head coaches that deserved more time.