Sutter is the problem

[DSIM420]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I disagree.

You don't outshoot and control the puck the way this team has without working hard. They work hard. Effort is not a problem.

Skill level is a problem. System is a problem.

The quality of those shots are not very good. We can out shoot a team 45-20 but our goalie has to work harder then the other teams goalie. I would rather the team get less shots, but really good quality shots. I don't think we have been very good at controlling the puck or we would have alot more good quality scoring chances. Last year the team was about puck possession. This year it seems like all they are doing is entering the zone and firing the puck on net and hoping for the best.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DSIM420

The quality of those shots are not very good. We can out shoot a team 45-20 but our goalie has to work harder then the other teams goalie. I would rather the team get less shots, but really good quality shots. I don't think we have been very good at controlling the puck or we would have alot more good quality scoring chances. Last year the team was about puck possession. This year it seems like all they are doing is entering the zone and firing the puck on net and hoping for the best.

I 100% agree, just making the point that it still takes a lot of effort for the Flames to get the shot volume and control the play the way they do. I just don't think it's an effort problem.

I also don't feel like it's a big change from last season other than the fact that the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line was so deadly on quick break outs and rushes that it completely changed the narrative.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I disagree with that.

Everyone should have a little coach/boss-imposed fear? No, that's bull!@#$. That's a bad working environment and decidedly NOT a good team environment. Teams are at their best when everyone is working together. You hear young players say it of good coaches - they work with you, and you don't have to worry that making a mistake will lead to you getting benched, so you're free to play the game.

A younger coach wouldn't have the balls to neuter and crush the players with the two biggest contracts in franchise history? We should get a younger coach.

Yeah fear of failure. Fear of not meeting your goals, fear of losing, fear of disappointment. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of not earning your paycheck.

Those are motivators. Why would you want to eliminate all of that? Why do you think a guy like Weegar has adapted so much better to a new team than Huberdeau? He has had to overcome challenges before.

And wow I’m tired of people blaming the coach for players not performing. Total lack of accountability. Crushed and neutered…

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah fear of failure. Fear of not meeting your goals, fear of losing, fear of disappointment. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of not earning your paycheck.

Those are motivators. Why would you want to eliminate all of that? Why do you think a guy like Weegar has adapted so much better to a new team than Huberdeau? He has had to overcome challenges before.

And wow I’m tired of people blaming the coach for players not performing. Total lack of accountability. Crushed and neutered…

Yeah if Kadri and Huberdeau had the same mindset as Weegar there would be no problem. Guy gives it 100% every game. I'm excited for him and Rasmus from now on. I am honestly blown away that there is fans defending Huberdeau at this point. If there was a probation period for the NHL like there is normal jobs he would be gone.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah fear of failure. Fear of not meeting your goals, fear of losing, fear of disappointment. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of not earning your paycheck.

Those are motivators. Why would you want to eliminate all of that? Why do you think a guy like Weegar has adapted so much better to a new team than Huberdeau? He has had to overcome challenges before.

And wow I’m tired of people blaming the coach for players not performing. Total lack of accountability. Crushed and neutered…

I'm not exclusively blaming the coach. I think the roster needs to get blown up just as much as the coach needs to get fired.

With that said though, you have to look at things on a smaller scale. Being "tired of blaming the coach for players not performing" - that sounds like you're looking at the history of the Flames and are tired of them firing coaches and not blaming the players, even though the Flames coaching rotation is on-par with league norms.

Focus the view though:

Jonathan Huberdeau, 4 straight years of being a PPG player and better.

Nazem Kadri, constant pro, important part of a Stanley Cup Champion just last season.

They come here and their games collapse. Why is that? Both of those players have a history of performing - why does it not all of a sudden work? How does Jonathan Huberdeau hit the NHL record for biggest one-season drop off in production? That's all on Huberdeau? Really? You truly believe environment/other roster components/coach utilization doesn't weigh in?

He just needs to "work harder and earn more ice time"? That's such a narrow view of the situation in my eyes.

Look at it further too - James Neal comes here and his game falls off a cliff. Troy Brouwer comes here and his game falls off a cliff. Jacob Markstrom comes here and his game is all over the damn place.

Maybe it's time this team stops going out and spending signfiicant money on UFAs that are 30 or older? We've certainly got a pretty good history of proving that's generally a bad idea. Chris Tanev is like the one outlier where it looks like he'll get through his full contract without it being a disaster. Frolik was probably the next best but his contract ended up being a disaster in the last two years.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

One thing I do hope happens is that if the Flames do decide to commit to a rebuild, people still buy tickets and support the team.

Fans gotta do their part too and that's often not talked about.

Absolutely


To the Wranglers

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

We don't realy have the ability to run and gun with teams who have elite players. In the playoffs there is going to be less time and space so if the Flames key players can't contribute that is something Huberdeau is going to ha e to figure out. That's why he gets paid the big bucks to be the leader and difference maker on the ice. Huberdeau's inability, to contribute reflects more on the player than the style of play.

The Flames got into trouble in the playoffs trying to be too creative and fancy. If they can play a team game and get contributions from key players that would be ideal; But to change the style of play for one player makes little sense. Johnny G could do it and he was a small player, why can't Huberdeau?

I don’t disagree. It’s more on the type of player Huberdeau is than the Flames

He is truly not a star player they thought if he can not adjust. At least a little bit for Christ sake

[Bingo]

Yeah it's all of it.

I don't think Sutter's system is all that limiting offensively, but some of the lineup choices and ice time shares have created some anger from his players and probably with some justification. They're not getting the success so you find yourself less willing to stomach the tough to play for coach and then it becomes you (the player) as a problem.

As you become less than you're supposed to be.

But that's only to a point.

There's Markstrom struggling with medium danger shots all season, Kadri going offside and blowing the zone, never using his linemates, and Huberdeau finding a way to kill almost every play on his stick.

That's individual performance, and no coach is telling them to do any of those things.

Plenty of blame to go around.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I don’t disagree. It’s more on the type of player Huberdeau is than the Flames

He is truly not a star player they thought if he can not adjust. At least a little bit for Christ sake

Why is it just on the player? Where is the coach utilizing a players skillset?

I'd argue that Huberdeau has really worked at adjusting this year and doing what the coach is asking him to - and it's messed up his game pretty bad, which is on his shoulders but also on Darryl for focing a square peg into a round hole situation.

[SportsJunky]

Flames now have a 6% chance of making the playoffs. Might as well be 0%.

I'm not sure what lineup/coaching/management changes are coming for this group but I can't imagine they stand pat. At the very least, they probably move 1 or 2 roster players for cap space next season. I'd like to see Coronato signed as soon as possible. If Treliving gets Coronato signed then I think he can ride off into the sunset knowing he did a decent job here. I don't see Sutter leaving as much as it might be for the best.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Why is it just on the player? Where is the coach utilizing a players skillset?

I'd argue that Huberdeau has really worked at adjusting this year and doing what the coach is asking him to - and it's messed up his game pretty bad, which is on his shoulders but also on Darryl for focing a square peg into a round hole situation.

When you produce 1/2 of what is expected, you can’t adjust.

Plenty of people produced for Sutter.

Not saying Sutter is doing good this year but it’s not all his fault. Huberdeau is to blame for most of it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

When you produce 1/2 of what is expected, you can’t adjust.

Plenty of people produced for Sutter.

Not saying Sutter is doing good this year but it’s not all his fault. Huberdeau is to blame for most of it.

Yeah ...

Has to be what 80% on the player?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah ...

Has to be what 80% on the player?

I think some small amount on Sutter, a little bit more on his star line mates. Lindholm came not ready to play then Kadri simply sucked lately.

But more than half is on Huberdeau himself.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

When you produce 1/2 of what is expected, you can’t adjust.

Plenty of people produced for Sutter.

Not saying Sutter is doing good this year but it’s not all his fault. Huberdeau is to blame for most of it.

I still want to see how Hubi produces under a different coach.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Dion

I still want to see how Hubi produces under a different coach.

Yeah probably only way to find out

[topfiverecords]

Remember when Whoberdeau said Lindholm was gonna score 50 with him?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yeah probably only way to find out

It's my opinion that Hubi and his creative play making isn't suited well for Sutter and his style of play.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Dion

I still want to see how Hubi produces under a different coach.

Yup.

It's not that a replacement will necessarily be better or smarter than Sutter, but we need to know how these guys look under a coach that they don't have massive differences with.

We obviously still don't know what the ceiling for this group is because of how far below their career averages these guys have played.

I think some changes are needed for chemistry but I'd like to see what this team is with those guys playing even 80% of their 2021-22 selves

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yeah if Kadri and Huberdeau had the same mindset as Weegar there would be no problem. Guy gives it 100% every game. I'm excited for him and Rasmus from now on. I am honestly blown away that there is fans defending Huberdeau at this point. If there was a probation period for the NHL like there is normal jobs he would be gone.

It seems amazing to me that anyone defends Huberdeau. The guy doesn't even look like he is trying most of the time, You barely notice him in any game, and when you do, it's usually because he is killing plays by throwing the puck into a crowd of players hoping someone gets it.

Huberdeau is a 29 year old that just signed and $84 million deal. It shouldn't be up to the coach to make sure he GAF out there.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Remember when Whoberdeau said Lindholm was gonna score 50 with him?

Lindholm believed that also. He thought he just had to come standing around like a pylon for Huberdeau to bang it in. And that’s what he did.