Sutter is the problem

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not that surprising that Darryl was an Edwards hire as Darryl has always been his guy. It's why many of us surmised it was the case. As a fan I can't complain about an owner like Edwards that pays the bills and stays out of headlines however it sure seems like the organization would be in a much better place if he was hands off.

I prefer the team owner be hands off as much as possible too, but after watching 3 consecutive coaching hires fail under Tre's watch, I can't say I wouldn't have been tempted to step in if I thought a proven name was available.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Mangiapane has been one of the team's best players all season. Don't confuse a poor shooting percentage with a lost cause.

the guy is the 33rd ranked forward in the league this season in xGF%

Totally disagree. The guy is terrible this year. Mediocre at best. They need his production badly and rarely get it.

If he is one of the best, that is the reason they are about to miss the playoffs

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not that surprising that Darryl was an Edwards hire as Darryl has always been his guy. It's why many of us surmised it was the case. As a fan I can't complain about an owner like Edwards that pays the bills and stays out of headlines however it sure seems like the organization would be in a much better place if he was hands off.

Failing to hire a good coach has been Treliving's biggest failure. I think Edwards was likely just sick and tired of Treliving's failure in this regard and took the keys away from him. Not saying that Edwards should have done that, but I can see why he did.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

outcoached? the Flames got .875 SV% for the series - not sure any coach could survive that...and still if not for a blown no-goal call, who knows?

edit: correction .852 SV%

Yet our legendary coach did NOTHING to adjust and allowed two players to rack up and unprecedented 31 points against the Flames in five games. Make ####ing adjustments! That Average Joe's Gym looking mother####er up the way did. The fact that Sutter made ZERO adjustments and Woodcroft did means he outcoached "one of the greatest coaches in the game" which led to a convincing series win.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Failing to hire a good coach has been Treliving's biggest failure. I think Edwards was likely just sick and tired of Treliving's failure in this regard and took the keys away from him. Not saying that Edwards should have done that, but I can see why he did.

The trade deadline pretty much shows the keys were taken away from Treliving for pretty much any decision. Sad how the team has gone.

[NegativeSpace]

Well, if multiple media are all reporting the same thing then it sure seems like the coach is gone regardless of whether that is fair or not. Sutter's made some errors this year for sure, but I'm not sure he's the primary reason the team is failing. I agree with the comment that the GM is going to have a busy off-season regardless of what happens in these final 10 games.



I hope that they think carefully regarding the Mitch Love talk as a replacement though. I'm not saying that he's unqualified or the right person as I don't watch the Wranglers. When you have an MVP caliber goaltender, it can cover up a lot for a coach. How many times has it been said that if Darryl and league average goaltending this year the team would be comfortably in a playoff spot despite all the other issues?

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

Well, if multiple media are all reporting the same thing then it sure seems like the coach is gone regardless of whether that is fair or not. Sutter's made some errors this year for sure, but I'm not sure he's the primary reason the team is failing. I agree with the comment that the GM is going to have a busy off-season regardless of what happens in these final 10 games.



I hope that they think carefully regarding the Mitch Love talk as a replacement though. I'm not saying that he's unqualified or the right person as I don't watch the Wranglers. When you have an MVP caliber goaltender, it can cover up a lot for a coach. How many times has it been said that if Darryl and league average goaltending this year the team would be comfortably in a playoff spot despite all the other issues?

Bring them together then and they can be torn apart together as a pair.

[Eric Vail]

I think this thread could be renamed, "Every Flames coach is the problem."

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Totally disagree. The guy is terrible this year. Mediocre at best. They need his production badly and rarely get it.

If he is one of the best, that is the reason they are about to miss the playoffs

Any evidence to support your disagreement?

[GranteedEV]

Not having a franchise center and franchise defenseman since Gilmour/Nieuwendyk + MacInnis is the problem

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I said it earlier but that was always going to be the biggest issue this offseason for Sutter.

If Lindholm, Hanifin, Toffoli, Tanev, Zadorov, Backlund indicate they aren't willing to re-sign with Sutter as head coach then that will cost him his job.

Especially if there were indications that part of the reason Tkachuk wanted out was Sutter (which I've heard was part of the reason).

A very large part, from what I was told(a very good source) the players knew Sutter was going to be extended after he won the Adams and as much as people like to blame the wife it played the largest part in Johnny leaving, when that happened Tkachuk said I'm not signing long term so you may as well trade me now. also the players absolutely hate not having a buffer(captain) to get between them and Sutter's head games.

Sutter is too full of himself, his belittlement of players doesn't work in todays NHL and his refusal to give young talented players any rope is a piss off... he has to go.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Not having a franchise center and franchise defenseman since Gilmour/Nieuwendyk + MacInnis is the problem

The only way to get them, unless you are extremely lucky and can fleece someone in a trade, it to draft them, usually in the top 3, and even that depends on the draft year. The Flames dedication for mediocre as the floor means we are unlikely to ever draft players like that.

There was Giordano, who was the best defenseman in the league for a short period of time, but it wasn't long enough to give the team a really large window. And of course, we did draft Adam Fox. The center thing stands out massively though.

[SportsJunky]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1638267898161676289

https://twitter.com/user/status/1638268928442105856

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The only way to get them, unless you are extremely lucky and can fleece someone in a trade, it to draft them, usually in the top 3, and even that depends on the draft year. The Flames dedication for mediocre as the floor means we are unlikely to ever draft players like that.

There was Giordano, who was the best defenseman in the league for a short period of time, but it wasn't long enough to give the team a really large window. And of course, we did draft Adam Fox. The center thing stands out massively though.

We had a center who was 9th in league scoring three separate times before injuries derailed his career. But we traded him before that for a bucket of pucks because we picked the coach over him.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

We had a center who was 9th in league scoring three separate times before injuries derailed his career. But we traded him before that for a bucket of pucks because we picked the coach over him.

Gilbert was probably the worst coach the Flames ever had. I recall Savard was scratched, came back and had a 4 point night again Detroit I think it was, and then was scratched the next game because Gilbert couldn't stand to be proven wrong. When Savard was asked why he was scratched, he said he didn't know because the coach doesn't talk to him, and when Gilbert was asked, he said if the player wanted to know, he could ask. It's not a surprise that Gilbert never had another sniff as an NHL coach after that.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

A very large part, from what I was told(a very good source) the players knew Sutter was going to be extended after he won the Adams and as much as people like to blame the wife it played the largest part in Johnny leaving, when that happened Tkachuk said I'm not signing long term so you may as well trade me now. also the players absolutely hate not having a buffer(captain) to get between them and Sutter's head games.

Sutter is too full of himself, his belittlement of players doesn't work in todays NHL and his refusal to give young talented players any rope is a piss off... he has to go.

I've heard that it played a big role in Tkachuk leaving from multiple people, and really that one has legs going back to 20-21 and even Tkachuk's own comments about "Maurice being the best coach he's ever played for".

But now this is the third time I've also heard it played a big role in Gaudreau leaving, and I do think that one is a bit more surprising since it seemed like they got along. Imagine choosing to take less money, and playing for Columbus because you couldn't stand playing for this coach anymore.

The no captain thing does seem so weird to me too - Sutter has been here three seasons now, two without a captain, you're telling me nobody on a roster full of veterans is able to wear the C.

Think it just speaks to overall how he treats these guys as nobody being good enough.

[SuperMatt18]

Thinking about this more this afternoon but at this point, ignoring the on ice impact part of it, I think you have to consider that Sutter has been poison for this organization from an off-ice perspective, and now for a second time because he was poison as a GM too.

By most accounts from what people think are trustworthy sources he's played a role in Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, I've heard it from too many people at this point to ignore it. Huberdeau and Kadri clearly want no part of him as a coach long term after dealing with him for 6 months. IMO he's been toxic to the GM as well in terms of it feels like he's always throwing Treliving under the bus IMO, and that might get Treliving to leave. Who knows what other players think of him but I doubt it's just those two that are fed up.

I don't see how you can afford to bring him back next season at this point. Time for him and Edwards to work on resignation plan / buyout this offseason.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Gilbert was probably the worst coach the Flames ever had. I recall Savard was scratched, came back and had a 4 point night again Detroit I think it was, and then was scratched the next game because Gilbert couldn't stand to be proven wrong. When Savard was asked why he was scratched, he said he didn't know because the coach doesn't talk to him, and when Gilbert was asked, he said if the player wanted to know, he could ask. It's not a surprise that Gilbert never had another sniff as an NHL coach after that.

Plus Button backing Gilbert and trading Savard for a lump of coal is why he never saw a GM's chair again.

Too bad really because Button is actually a good hockey guy, that massive misstep probably haunts him to this day.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Plus Button backing Gilbert and trading Savard for a lump of coal is why he never saw a GM's chair again.

Too bad really because Button is actually a good hockey guy, that massive misstep probably haunts him to this day.

He was also the one that released Marty St. Louis, Al Coates and team wanted to give marty a bigger role but that staff was fired.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Plus Button backing Gilbert and trading Savard for a lump of coal is why he never saw a GM's chair again.

Too bad really because Button is actually a good hockey guy, that massive misstep probably haunts him to this day.

I think I heard, probably on here, that Button has admitted that he handled that situation incorrectly. Button strikes me as a good guy and knowledgeable, but a little meek. I think he was intimidated by Gilbert's aggressive dude-bro persona.