Sutter is the problem

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Let’s assume Sutter makes $4m-ish a year…it’s better to eat that $8ish million to allow your $64m and $49m investments have a chance to get on track. I don’t see it happening as long as Sutter is anywhere near the team. It isn’t quite a sunk cost but is probably a good business decision not to waste $15.5m to protect $4m a season.

It's not just that total money amount, it's that those contracts should be the best in the first few years. Keeping Sutter around to continue to prove how useless he is will ruin the best two years of those contracts.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

It's not just that total money amount, it's that those contracts should be the best in the first few years. Keeping Sutter around to continue to prove how useless he is will ruin the best two years of those contracts.

Good point. You’d hope they’d be somewhat outplaying their contracts at this age so that you can feel better about paying them when they’re at the end of the deals. Kadri will be nearly 40 when his contract is done.

[Dajazz]

Sutter in goal tonight?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Sutter in goal tonight?

No but they are playing Sutter’s defensive system and it’s not working.

[united]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

https://twitter.com/user/status/1637863591826055191

https://www.sportsnet.ca/podcasts/32-thoughts/

I listened to the Podcast earlier today and this seemed different from what I remembered hearing so listened again during the second intermission. Sure enough an important part was intentionally left out. Here is the full clip, with emphasis added:

You know, Kadri gets benched. It’s a weird benching, to me. And you know, the one thing I’ll say about Kadri is – the best thing about him and you’ll remember his interview on the ice last year with Dave Amber after they won the Cup: he’s blunt. He’s gonna say what’s on his mind. And I’ve heard that Kadri’s been very vocal about what he sees going on in Calgary and why the Team isn’t firing on all cylinders. And I think he’s been very blunt about…just the communication between players and the coach there. So, I’m betting some of that frustration boiled over in that game on Saturday night.

[Ashasx]

I think Friedman is saying that Kadri being vocal and honest is why that frustration boiled over when the team hasn't performed, not that it may not have happened at all.

[CGY12]

If I had to wager this started when Sutter started making just bizarre comments to the media, taking his feud with local media members and the players being in the cross fire. He's done a putrid job of keeping things in house.

[Infinit47]

Sutter was a stupid choice three years ago, and it's stupid to keep him around now. The game has passed him by, and continually telling the players to play the game the way it worked 10 years ago is embarrassing.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Sutter was a stupid choice three years ago, and it's stupid to keep him around now. The game has passed him by, and continually telling the players to play the game the way it worked 10 years ago is embarrassing.

Last season we wanted to put a statue of Sutter up in front of the Dome. He had this team playing at an elite level for the entirety of last season with elite numbers across the board.

In my opinion he was the right choice to come in and try and get the Gaudreau/Tkachuk Flames over the hump but with those guys gone he is not the right fit for this retooled team. In my opinion he should have been hired instead of Bill Peters in 2018

[Strange Brew]

And you know, I think that you know Kadri not playing in OT against Dallas was not all that weird. You know.

[SuperMatt18]

Really the biggest reason for a change at this point is that if this team is going to have any success it's going to be by incorporating youngsters with the veterans next season.

Especially for the forward group.

Pelletier, Zary, Coronato, and Duehr (although he's not really young) potentially all need to have a spot next year. And it's almost impossible to see that happening with Sutter as coach.

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Pelletier- Kadri - Dube
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coronato
Zary - Ruzicka - Coleman
Duehr

Get rid of the low upside veterans in Lewis, Lucic, Ritchie, etc that Sutter loves.

Look at the LA team that beat us last night. Kaliyev is 21. Byfield is 20. Kupari is 22. Anderson-Dolan is 22. The Kings added youth to their veterans in Kopitar, Danault, Arvidson, etc and it worked for them. Sutter is a barrier to that type of strategy.

Part of the reason the team looks slow and plodding is because of those veterans. Adding pieces like Pelletier, Duehr, Coronato, etc adds the speed and tenacity the team has been lacking.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Last season we wanted to put a statue of Sutter up in front of the Dome.

Speak for yourself. Nobody gets a statue for regular season. The playoffs sucked. He had no answer for McDavid.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by chedder

Speak for yourself. Nobody gets a statue for regular season. The playoffs sucked. He had no answer for McDavid.

The last 4 games against Edmonton sucked for sure.

But they won a round including a game 7 overtime goal for the ages.

Given Flames history, that's a successful playoff year in my book after a great regular season.

If that sucked you must be beyond depressed most seasons.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by chedder

Tre is out of a job the day the season ends as of right now. He doesn't have a contract extension. (Maybe he doesn't want one)

If ownership is ride or die with Sutter, I'd guess Treliving is going to explore his options.

Is that true? I'd expect a GM contract to have a firm calendar end date in the contract and not just the arbitrary end of the season.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by chedder

Speak for yourself. Nobody gets a statue for regular season. The playoffs sucked. He had no answer for McDavid.

You took that comment too seriously. I was emphasizing how much this fanbase adored Sutter last year. Even with the playoffs the blame was not pointed at him last year.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Sutter was a stupid choice three years ago, and it's stupid to keep him around now. The game has passed him by, and continually telling the players to play the game the way it worked 10 years ago is embarrassing.

I don't get this take that some of you have. He's not doing a good job this year but he was coach of the year last year.
That doesn't seem to be the mark of a bad coach that the game has passed by. Sure his personality type may be a bit past it's due date, but not his coaching skills.

Vinny is right. He was the right coach for the players the flames had last year, and just isn't a fit for the players the team has now.

Some of the players may not be reacting well to being coached by a sarcastic, stubborn jerk. And Sutter also doesn't seem to be doing himself any favors on top of that by how he's been using the players.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Really the biggest reason for a change at this point is that if this team is going to have any success it's going to be by incorporating youngsters with the veterans next season.

Especially for the forward group.

Pelletier, Zary, Coronato, and Duehr (although he's not really young) potentially all need to have a spot next year. And it's almost impossible to see that happening with Sutter as coach.

Thing is that’s not really true. Historically he’s had no problem w 18-22 year olds. I actually think the team is too veteran for him. I think he does better with an emerging core.

In SJ he had no problem with Friesen Marleau Zyzuzin and Sturm.
In Calgary he was happy giving big roles to RR, Dion, Saprykin, Gauthier, Lombardi and Kobasew.
In LA he leaned on voynov, doughty, players like Clifford and Nolan, and eventually Pearson and Toffoli Maybe even Martinez.

His job was to win. He played his hand and lost badly. If he’s fired for that he’s earned it. But if he’s back it’s not the kids I’ll be worried about but the vets and leaders who don’t seem to be on the same page and are established and paid enough that they don’t need to change.

[Delthefunky]

And Sutter wasn't the reason we lost to the Oilers, that was all Markstrom. We had multiple, multiple goal leads and he blew all of them.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

And Sutter wasn't the reason we lost to the Oilers, that was all Markstrom. We had multiple, multiple goal leads and he blew all of them.

Which he has carried over to a .889 save percentage this year. He looked like he came around after the kid but it's started tailing off again. Last night he got no help at all though.

[Erick Estrada]

If Brad re-ups with the Flames he will have gained my respect. He's staring at a team that has locker room issues, head coach issues, and goaltending issues. The GM is tasked with fixing that and the easy thing for him to do would be to pull the chute and move on to greener pastures and I do believe he will land on his feet quickly. Do you keep the coach that just signed an extension that's been at odds with the roster makeup (thinly veiled shots at GM) since the day he was brought in and a guy that's not exactly a collaborator in a team environment? Where to start with the goaltending? Can you afford to bring both of these guys back and if not how do you go about unloading one of them if there's a market? How do you deal with the two new forwards that have underachieved? Brad or whomever the GM may be is going to have a hell of a lot on his plate this summer.