Inclusivity and the NHL: We Have a Problem

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I don't think it's a big deal. But if Reimer does then I don't think he should be compelled to. (Or bullied for not wearing it, which is exactly what this thread is doing).

Totalitarian thinking requires compliance.

fine but don't play the game and don't be paid

people would be changing their religious tunes pretty quick if the almighty dollar was at stake. The guy breaks the teachings of his supposed religion daily so lets be real here...he doesn't want to wear it because he is homophobic.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Millionaire hockey players citing religion for not wearing a freaking jersey is pretty rich (pardon the pun)

From the best selling book of all time:

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven."

Reimer probably didn't worry about this as much when signing the multi-million dollar contracts.

The crazy thing about that quote is they've convinced themselves that he was actually talking some secret side entrance to a city that was just barely big enough for a camel to walk through that was known as "they eye of the needle". So, you see, he wasn't saying that it's impossible for a rich man to get into heaven. He was saying that you just need to know how to find the special secret door to go through.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

What’s actually illiberal is taking away the rights of queer people. There is a SCOTUS Justice who basically begged for people to challenge Obergefell so that they can strike it down. We can see from how striking down Roe v. Wade how quickly rights will be stripped away. Imagine having your marriage taken away from you. State after state we are seeing illiberal attacks on the rights of queer people. Illiberalism is taking over the US and it isn’t from “woke” people…it’s people like Reimer.

But Reimer can be a snowflake who’s triggered by wearing a jersey for a few minutes…boo ####ing hoo.

This is a straw man argument as Reimer has made no such claims. In fact the entire jersey thing is a straw man.

It should be irrelevant to everyone what Reimer does or does not do. The entire jersey debacle this year is just a struggle session.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

This is a straw man argument as Reimer has made no such claims. In fact the entire jersey thing is a straw man.

It should be irrelevant to everyone what Reimer does or does not do. The entire jersey debacle this year is just a struggle session.

Or maybe the league wants to grow the game beyond it's one major demographic...as someone who makes millions from the league he should take part or sit out, shut up, and not be paid.

His ridiculous reason just makes it worse.

There are FAR more passages in the bible against the wealthy than against being gay, especially when you keep that most of that money for yourself.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

I can't disagree or say anything. I'm fearful for my life and career. The movement is all good and pure. There is no negative agenda, it's all love!

Good serf. *pats on head*

And remember, an organization that has a history of covering up sexual assaults of gay players doing a "Pride Night" is not cynical and hollow virtual signaling. Ignore your lying eyes.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Or maybe the league wants to grow the game beyond it's one major demographic...as someone who makes millions from the league he should take part or sit out, shut up, and not be paid.

His ridiculous reason just makes it worse.

There are FAR more passages in the bible against the wealthy than against being gay, especially when you keep that most of that money for yourself.

"Be like us or we will punish you".

Sounds very inclusive.

[MonaTone]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

This is a straw man argument as Reimer has made no such claims. In fact the entire jersey thing is a straw man.

It should be irrelevant to everyone what Reimer does or does not do. The entire jersey debacle this year is just a struggle session.

This is such bs, by refusing the jersey and by extension refusing to welcome a marginalized group to share in the sport of hockey with the bare minimum of gestures he has shown who he is.

His professed faith says these folks, he can't endorse/support as a Christian are condemned to hell and he will not even feign support to save himself a massive headache. So we know who he votes for, donates to, what legislation he supports.

I have zero doubts he is a 'nice' guy, but when someone shows you who they are...believe them.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dino7c

fine but don't play the game and don't be paid

So extending this logic... you're in support of Colin Kaepernick not playing the game and not getting paid for his beliefs, right?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by cannon7

So extending this logic... you're in support of Colin Kaepernick not playing the game and not getting paid for his beliefs, right?

Not following your train of thought here. Was there a uniform or cause he didn't support??? He took a knee during the antem kinda different.

The anthems are a #### tradition anyways. Sporting events didn't always do this till baseball tried it one day and America8ns were like "this is cool " and then because the crowd way back then kinda liked it because America! They just went with it.

So i your mind what what was Kaepernick disrespecting?

Yhe Anthems were a gimmick that baseball came up with. A side show that pleased the crowd . That's it that's all . It drew crowds in earlier to the game. The American anthem was a side show to get people in the seats early to buy concessions .

[Flame On]

Kaepernick wasn't trying to diminish a group or limit rights, in fact the opposite. He was simply trying to raise awareness.
Reimer's comments throws fuel on the fire of the social battle, and indirectly diminishes a group.
And the religious beliefs around this issue have been proven, time and again to be utter BS with regards to Christendom. It's just selective bigotry hiding behind the cloak of religion.

[curves2000]

I was going to post an Athletic article about this topic the other day ironically but decided against it cause the matter was pretty much settled previously. Players are not going to be forced or punished in any way from the NHL and the team for these particular matters.

I do think that if we did a quite, straw pole of NHL players and even all 4 North America, we may be surprised at how a lot of them think when it comes to some of these issues and other social justice causes.

Sometimes it's in everybody's interest to shut up and just go along with it. How many NFL players supported the BLM and anthem protests quietly? Perhaps more then lead on.

I do think if given the choice to participate in these type of events without anybody knowing, more players may take the opportunity. Even people within the LGBT community are ok with people just being who they are as long as it doesn't infringe or do significant harm to someone else.

It's like the classic story of a Christian baker who is called upon to bake a cake for a gay wedding and all the drama that associates with that scenario. If your in business, conduct commerce and business, leaving politics and religion out of it. If you can't, than that's fine and you can probably lose future gay wedding business.

On the other hand, if someone is making your life difficult with regards to the cake, take your hard earned money somewhere else and give it to a business who want's it and values it. No need for drama, media reports, social media posts and human rights tribunal etc.

The NHL probably has a handful of guy's on each team who don't want to wear these jerseys but don't want to deal with the media and other attention it brings. They wear it and aren't happy about it.

An interesting debate came up on the political show, Real Time with Bill Maher about some of this diversity & inclusion departments across organizations today. He pointed to a university in Michigan I believe that had 121 staff members directed towards diversity and inclusion. The questions came up if some things are becoming job justification, a "cottage industry" and if we are doing things just for the sake of doing things.

When the slogan is "Hockey is for everyone" Hasn't it been like that in very recent memory for the most part? When Brian Burke says this is about making everybody comfortable and welcomed into every NHL building, hasn't that been the case in recent memory for the most part?

Than I see what members of the diversity committee in the NHL said about it's work and commitment. Pretty much let's pacify the public with diversity nonsense and the NHL did jack **** about actual diversity.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Not following your train of thought here. Was there a uniform or cause he didn't support??? He took a knee during the antem kinda different.

The anthems are a #### tradition anyways. Sporting events didn't always do this till baseball tried it one day and America8ns were like "this is cool " and then because the crowd way back then kinda liked it because America! They just went with it.

So i your mind what what was Kaepernick disrespecting?

Yhe Anthems were a gimmick that baseball came up with. A side show that pleased the crowd . That's it that's all . It drew crowds in earlier to the game. The American anthem was a side show to get people in the seats early to buy concessions .

So if it is a ####ty tradition in your mind then it's OK? What if someone thinks a "Pride Night" by a league that has a history of covering up sexual assaults of gay players is political posturing bull####? Would that make it OK to not participate?

Kaepernick refused to stand for the national anthem for weeks before taking a knee. You may not agree, but many people saw this as him disrespecting military veterans. He has also been quoted as saying he doesn't support the flag or what it represents.

Again, you may be in agreement with him here, but you must also be OK with him not playing or getting paid for his controversial stance, right? Or are we going to be selective in which controversial views result in someone not getting to play or get paid?

To be clear, there is no evidence that Kaepernick's activism is the reason he's not playing in the NFL. He has been invited to multiple tryouts over the years and if he was good enough to play in the NFL, he would be. Just using him as an example.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Kaepernick wasn't trying to diminish a group or limit rights, in fact the opposite. He was simply trying to raise awareness.
Reimer's comments throws fuel on the fire of the social battle, and indirectly diminishes a group.
And the religious beliefs around this issue have been proven, time and again to be utter BS with regards to Christendom. It's just selective bigotry hiding behind the cloak of religion.

After the first game he took a knee during the national anthem Kaepernick was quoted as saying, "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder." Photos then surfaced of him wearing socks depicting police officers as pigs.

Not sure how that isn't throwing fuel on the fire of a social battle. Kaepernick certainly had a point, but calling police murderers is a tad more incendiary, IMO, than what Reimer said.

[Snuffleupagus]

Kaepernick took his cause was a little too far and thru gas on a fire when trumpism was reaching it's height, as a star athlete he could have used his fame and fortune for education rather than pissing off at least half of american but in the end his cause deserves some merit.

Reimer, Provorov and others hiding behind bull religion as their sick way out of bigotry and homophobia is disgusting and stupid. not even close to the same thing and way worse.

[Manhattanboy]

Moses came down from the top of Mount Sinai where he was greeted by his brother Aaron.

Aaron said “Moses, what took so long, you were up there 40 days and nights, and meanwhile the people are committing great sins, engaging in orgies and praying to golden calves. Hurry, get down there!”

Moses says to Aaron, “So, would you like the good news first or the bad news?”

Aaron replies “Ok, give me the good news.”

Moses says “I got Him down to just Ten Commandments”

“That’s good, and the bad news?”

“Adultery is still in.”

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Kaepernick took his cause was a little too far and thru gas on a fire when trumpism was reaching it's height, as a star athlete he could have used his fame and fortune for education rather than pissing off at least half of american but in the end his cause deserves some merit.

Reimer, Provorov and others hiding behind bull religion as their sick way out of bigotry and homophobia is disgusting and stupid. not even close to the same thing and way worse.

But bigotry towards the religious and religiophobia is just fine, I guess.

“There’s a bunch of teams starting to wear them and I just came to the conviction through my faith that it went against what I believe the Bible says,” he said. “I don’t want to really go into too much detail about the behind-the-scenes stuff. But it’s something that I tried to do my due diligence and just came to the fact that the best way to stand up for what I believe in was just to not wear the jersey and then to try and make this as loving and least offensive as possible.”

In a statement, Reimer added that he has “no hate in my heart for anyone, and I have always strived to treat everyone that I encounter with respect and kindness.

“In this specific instance, I am choosing not to endorse something that is counter to my personal convictions which are based on the Bible, the highest authority in my life,” he said. “I strongly believe that every person has value and worth, and the LGBTQIA+ community, like all others, should be welcomed in all aspects of the game of hockey.”

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by cannon7

But bigotry towards the religious and religiophobia is just fine, I guess.

If you have a point...state it!

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

If you have a point...state it!

You're a dense hypocrite.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by cannon7

You're a dense hypocrite.

I'm a dense hypocrite because I call out people hiding behind religion? Yeah ok, sure pal

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I'm a dense hypocrite because I call out people hiding behind religion? Yeah ok, sure pal

You're hiding behind what is politically fashionable.