Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Oh great more identity politics

It's a political thread and people do consider themselves Conservative, Green, NDP, Liberal party supporters. That's the name of the game. Probably why rule #1 in politics is get your supporters out to vote. Dumbed down to it, there is nothing else a party can do other than encourage you to vote, that's it.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think neither party has any interest is improving the quality of life for rural folks.

Not sure I entirely agree.

The UCP treats the rural voting contingent like 'useful idiots'. Much like the Republican party to the downtrodden lower class in the US, the UCP acts like they champion the issues important to the rural voter, paying lip service to their hot button issues (with some good 'oooh scary NDP socialism' thrown in for good measure) and yet does absolutely nothing for them. They should be insulted by this treatment, but somehow it works.

By their very platform, the NDP seems motivated to improve the quality of life for all Albertans, even if they don't have a specific focus on rural issues. Education and healthcare matter whether you live in the city or not.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by DylanScores

How about a committee to review and evaluate how to keep the current health care staff that you have right now?!
You can bring as much as many people you want but if you don’t treat your current right what’s the point?
Maybe your committee should start talking to those who have their boots on the ground and ask them what can be done to improve the situation in our primary care settings?

I think part of our problem in Canada is we need to lose our collective ego's and admit that our healthcare system in Canada is borderline a failing nightmare that isn't and hasn't been funded properly in who knows how many years. This goes across all provinces and all government's.

The entire system needs some serious modernization and improvements along with efficiencies. We need to actually fund it significantly higher than we are now.

In Canada we play a masterful game of pretending we aren't rationing healthcare when in reality every single minute of the day we are rationing care.

Frontline workers are always the ones who pay the most in terms of stressed out Canadians who just want access to care, to feel better and actually get good value for their tax dollars. I feel for them as they are amazing people!

All political players need to quite their collective BS and get working on solutions for Canadians. Corruption and incompetence's across the board on these files.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

It's a political thread and people do consider themselves Conservative, Green, NDP, Liberal party supporters. That's the name of the game. Probably why rule #1 in politics is get your supporters out to vote. Dumbed down to it, there is nothing else a party can do other than encourage you to vote, that's it.

I prefer to look at policy rather than party name but to each their own.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think part of our problem in Canada is we need to lose our collective ego's and admit that our healthcare system in Canada is borderline a failing nightmare that isn't and hasn't been funded properly in who knows how many years. This goes across all provinces and all government's.

The entire system needs some serious modernization and improvements along with efficiencies. We need to actually fund it significantly higher than we are now.

In Canada we play a masterful game of pretending we aren't rationing healthcare when in reality every single minute of the day we are rationing care.

Frontline workers are always the ones who pay the most in terms of stressed out Canadians who just want access to care, to feel better and actually get good value for their tax dollars. I feel for them as they are amazing people!

All political players need to quite their collective BS and get working on solutions for Canadians. Corruption and incompetence's across the board on these files.

So what you’re saying is maybe we shouldn’t be giving profitable corporations a tax break when the system is underfunded?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So what you’re saying is maybe we shouldn’t be giving profitable corporations a tax break when the system is underfunded?

Or that we shouldn’t align ourselves with the parties/political leanings that most often seek to undermine a healthy public healthcare system.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So what you’re saying is maybe we shouldn’t be giving profitable corporations a tax break when the system is underfunded?

Multifaceted approach for sure. Tax breaks could be on the chopping block, perhaps politically unpopular tax raises on a lot of people, and that could really include the lower and middle class too. Doesn't sound too popular if you and I gotta fork over a lot more in taxes to fund it.


We could also look at the draining of resources amongst certain people and how to better deal with their array of conditions. A family friend run's 2 different ICU's at 2 hospitals in Edmonton. Has an array of regular patients who are in and out of ICU for drug abuse, society decline, violence and more. Literally there are a mountain of people in Alberta who are considered "million dollar patients" for the amount of time they spend in ICU, which is just over $1 million a year per bed. How much of a resource drain can SOME people be across the board while other people's healthcare get's rationed? Lot's of discussion to be hand for the people in power.

As for you voting on policy, that's great and policy is very important. You would still be voting for specific parties so your identity politics would be a Conservative, NDP, Green, Liberal party etc supporter in (insert election year)

Nobody is voting on specific policy in general elections.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by curves2000

We could also look at the draining of resources amongst certain people and how to better deal with their array of conditions. A family friend run's 2 different ICU's at 2 hospitals in Edmonton. Has an array of regular patients who are in and out of ICU for drug abuse, society decline, violence and more. Literally there are a mountain of people in Alberta who are considered "million dollar patients" for the amount of time they spend in ICU, which is just over $1 million a year per bed. How much of a resource drain can SOME people be across the board while other people's healthcare get's rationed? Lot's of discussion to be hand for the people in power.

.

I don't think you are arguing otherwise but if those aren't healthcare issues they are definitely societal issues that need reckoning and all ultimately come out of the same master pot- the solutions aren't easy and I suppose both sides politically feel like they know the best way out- I wish I did!


it's a tough situation in general (I'm not saying anything particularly novel here) that often the performance of a 'healthcare' system gets graded or judged as much as the strength of the society itself

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think part of our problem in Canada is we need to lose our collective ego's and admit that our healthcare system in Canada is borderline a failing nightmare that isn't and hasn't been funded properly in who knows how many years. This goes across all provinces and all government's.

The entire system needs some serious modernization and improvements along with efficiencies. We need to actually fund it significantly higher than we are now.

In Canada we play a masterful game of pretending we aren't rationing healthcare when in reality every single minute of the day we are rationing care.

Frontline workers are always the ones who pay the most in terms of stressed out Canadians who just want access to care, to feel better and actually get good value for their tax dollars. I feel for them as they are amazing people!

All political players need to quite their collective BS and get working on solutions for Canadians. Corruption and incompetence's across the board on these files.

So if you keep seeing failure, why support the party that has engineered those failures for decades? Do you think, well this will be the term these Conservatives figure it out? Why not give another party a try? Voting for the same failures over and over seems kind of dumb, given your post.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Nobody is voting on specific policy in general elections.

That's exactly what I do. I'll switch my vote if there's a policy I don't want to support, or another party announces a policy I really like. It's happened so many times that I've never even voted for the same party twice in a row

[DylanScores]

The problem is that it will take some time for meaningful changes to happen
I wish all political leaders, MLA’s and managers spend a shift or two at the front lines and see with their own eyes what we see on a daily basis! We need meaningful actions not policies that’s good on paper.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Multifaceted approach for sure. Tax breaks could be on the chopping block, perhaps politically unpopular tax raises on a lot of people, and that could really include the lower and middle class too. Doesn't sound too popular if you and I gotta fork over a lot more in taxes to fund it.

Staying on topic, I don’t own a profitable corporation. So I’m not sure why you’re dodging what I specifically brought up and trying to spin it into tax increases for all. Only one group(profitable corporations) received tax breaks under this government.

As for you voting on policy, that's great and policy is very important. You would still be voting for specific parties so your identity politics would be a Conservative, NDP, Green, Liberal party etc supporter in (insert election year)

Nobody is voting on specific policy in general elections.

You just had someone tell you that they are doing just that, and here you are trying to argue that nobody does it.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DylanScores

The problem is that no matter who wins , nothing will change as long as the deeply entrenched multilayered managers keep their jobs. Meaningful changes especially in the healthcare doesn’t happen overnight, it takes time!
We need leaders that understand how the frontline works not policy makers who’ve never been to the frontlines.
I wish all political leaders, MLA’s and managers spend a shift or two at the front lines and see with their own eyes what we see on a daily basis! We need meaningful actions not policies!

When the UCP ripped up their contract with the AMA, doctors had a ton of suggestions for improvements to be made. They were promptly ignored and offered a ####ty contract. They signed something somewhat better but the frontline workers were largely ignored. They know the ins and outs of the administration, billing codes, procedures, and where funding needs to go. UCP ignored them en masse.

This will be the legacy of Tyler Shandro, Alberta Health, and the UCP. The healthcare system and lack of respect for public health is why many left the province during 2020-2022.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think part of our problem in Canada is we need to lose our collective ego's and admit that our healthcare system in Canada is borderline a failing nightmare that isn't and hasn't been funded properly in who knows how many years. This goes across all provinces and all government's.

The entire system needs some serious modernization and improvements along with efficiencies. We need to actually fund it significantly higher than we are now.

In Canada we play a masterful game of pretending we aren't rationing healthcare when in reality every single minute of the day we are rationing care.

Frontline workers are always the ones who pay the most in terms of stressed out Canadians who just want access to care, to feel better and actually get good value for their tax dollars. I feel for them as they are amazing people!

All political players need to quite their collective BS and get working on solutions for Canadians. Corruption and incompetence's across the board on these files.

Agree and if this can somehow also be done with healthcare workers agreeing to work on efficiencies, which is pretty much the whole point of the federal payment conditions, it’d be even better.

But, I’m skeptical. My wife is in healthcare, and the word “efficiency” doesn’t really apply to healthcare in Canada in any stripe. So much waste and stupidity. But yes- more funding is needed as well.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Staying on topic, I don’t own a profitable corporation. So I’m not sure why you’re dodging what I specifically brought up and trying to spin it into tax increases for all. Only one group(profitable corporations) received tax breaks under this government.




You just had someone tell you that they are doing just that, and here you are trying to argue that nobody does it.

I am not dodging your what you brought up, I actually provided what may need to happen. It's not really discussed at all but Canadian health care is really at a massive crossroads here. Massive, across the board issues in every province across all political spectrum. Just recently all the Premiers in Canada demanded $28 billion in ADDITIONAL funding annually + inflation as a STARTING point on attempting to fix health, that's attempting to try and get some semblance on track. Our federal government came back with $4 billion a year Less than 15% of the ask. So what is that going to do? Does it occur to the average Canadian that despite us having nearly $1.3 trillion in debt, that virtually every city, town and hamlet is having difficulty getting an emergency ambulance dispatched for life saving treatment? People are dying in ER waiting rooms, having life altering events occur while waiting for surgery and treatment.

At approx an additional $150 million a day in NEW debt to Canada on just federal debt, you think we, you, me, Albertans and Canadians are going to get out of paying more? Like a lot more? One of the reasons why the federal Liberals came up with that $4 billion a year, for 10 years deal, which by the way is like BS money, is because the credit card balance and the borrowing is getting a little too uncomfortable from the accountants and the economists at the Finance ministry. They need to reign in the spending and or grow the economy or add significant revenues.

If we are going to actually quit playing games with Canadian health care, quite the game with pretending we don't ration health care and get bloody serious about funding health care to the tune hundreds of billions of additional financing over the next short while, than yes, it may cost me and you more and everybody else.

As for voting on policy, as I have said, we usually don't vote on specific policy in Canada. This isn't American politics where on the ballot are an array of different plebiscites, proposition's and different people running on specific issues. County commissionaire, coroner, district attorney, water commissionaire , legalize pot, criminalize gay marriage, outlaw guns, guns for 9 year olds and all that other crazy American crap.

When you vote in Canada for your provincial and federal elections you mark an X with a golfball pencil next to a name of a of specific political party. Usually, that's it. If your specific policy isn't on the ballot, you are not voting for a specific policy, you are voting for a political party as a supporter or voter of that party.

[Scroopy Noopers]

………We know what the ballots look like.

[Wormius]

Did curves2000 think that when talking about voting based on policies, they literally thought the policies would be represented as plebiscites on the ballots?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Did curves2000 think that when talking about voting based on policies, they literally thought the policies would be represented as plebiscites on the ballots?

iggy_oi was indicating something about identity politics since I personally consider myself a conservatives voter, as if that's a strange or uncommon thing.

It would be as if I thought it was unusual for people to identify as a Liberal, NDP or progressive voter.

He prefers to vote on policy but you don't vote on policy in Canada, you may vote for a platform but regardless, your still a voter/supporter of a specific party or political direction.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by curves2000

iggy_oi was indicating something about identity politics since I personally consider myself a conservatives voter, as if that's a strange or uncommon thing.

It would be as if I thought it was unusual for people to identify as a Liberal, NDP or progressive voter.

He prefers to vote on policy but you don't vote on policy in Canada, you may vote for a platform but regardless, your still a voter/supporter of a specific party or political direction.

It should be a strange or uncommon thing to identify with a political party. That’s a really weird way of identifying yourself. In a healthy democracy you’d vote for the party / Representative that best represents the policies you want to see advanced.

The conservatives might typically do that for you but it’s still wierd to start from a baseline of I’m conservative.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GGG

It should be a strange or uncommon thing to identify with a political party. That’s a really weird way of identifying yourself. In a healthy democracy you’d vote for the party / Representative that best represents the policies you want to see advanced.

The conservatives might typically do that for you but it’s still wierd to start from a baseline of I’m conservative.

Exactly. I think of myself as politically agnostic. In a previous years election, the AB Party had some great ideas and policies that I’d have liked to have seen advanced, but unfortunately that didn’t come to pass.

Depending on where you are in life, maybe a party that is promoting something like fitness or lifestyle tax credits would capture certain votes. I am not really sure what in the UCPs platform is appealing to anyone other than the cloud-yelling demographic.