03-16-2023, 07:49 PM
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#21
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Otto
Agreed.
But I don't think it's particularly difficult to kill a police officer if you really want to. The only thing that prevents it from being a "regular" occurrence is good training (at least in Canada), experience and that the majority of people don't subscribe to the ACAB sentiments (although that's changing and as someone pointed out, may contribute to the increased violence against police).
It's interesting that I've seen a lot of blue line images today and I think it really shows that despite what some people think of it or how it's been (mis)appropriated by other groups, it's a very important symbol of support for police.
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Exactly what my son said, he's an RCMP officer just outside of Edmonton.
These poor guys never had a chance.
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03-17-2023, 04:10 AM
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#22
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
We're becoming the US. Soon officers will have to answer domestic call with guns drawn. And of course, at some point, an officer will shoot first.
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This is silly. It won’t happen. Do cops go to gun calls with guns drawn? Yes. Do they or will they go to standard domestics with no mention of weapons with their guns drawn? No.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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03-17-2023, 08:42 AM
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#23
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chummer
Exactly what my son said, he's an RCMP officer just outside of Edmonton.
These poor guys never had a chance.
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Through previous work I knew many officers near Edmonton. I could know your son.
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03-17-2023, 09:10 AM
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#24
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chedder
It'll be interesting to hear what dispatch said and who called the police. You almost have to think there was a failure of some kind for officers to walk into an apparent ambush like this. News saying it was a 16 or 17 year old and his mother was another victim.
Why can't these people just off themselves before ruining so many lives first.
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Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
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03-17-2023, 09:34 AM
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#25
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
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I'm not following this logic. A 16 year old doesn't know what an ambush is? Killing his mom, realizing the cops are coming, and then firing on them when they're unprepared and responding to the call is an ambush. That's not exactly unrealistic at all. You don't have to assume he used his mom as bait at all, just that he fired on them before they were engaged in the situation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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03-17-2023, 09:50 AM
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#26
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
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I don't know if I buy your logic on this, but I'm no expert.
But he shot his mom, he knew the cops were coming. It was an apartment and it sounds like a resident let the cops in and the both went to the same door of the apartment.
So they were doing a same door entry so a cross fire is unlikely, and could be more likely that the police were shot coming through the door. Just some off reports out there, it doesn't sound like the police got a shot off.
This whole thing is tragic and sad and a waste of life.
Lets hope that police in bad neighborhoods, which is how this neighborhood was described don't go with the American model of overwhelming kick down the door force on every suspicious call.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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03-17-2023, 11:03 AM
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#27
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
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A kid of that age can definitely understand and perform an ambush. There was no crossfire as it was said the officers weren't able to use their weapons.
Tragic situation. Only hope is that it provides some lessons so it is less likely to happen again.
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03-17-2023, 11:14 AM
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#28
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
I don't know if I buy your logic on this, but I'm no expert.
But he shot his mom, he knew the cops were coming. It was an apartment and it sounds like a resident let the cops in and the both went to the same door of the apartment.
So they were doing a same door entry so a cross fire is unlikely, and could be more likely that the police were shot coming through the door. Just some off reports out there, it doesn't sound like the police got a shot off.
This whole thing is tragic and sad and a waste of life.
Lets hope that police in bad neighborhoods, which is how this neighborhood was described don't go with the American model of overwhelming kick down the door force on every suspicious call.
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They are stating, for now anyways, that the officers did not have a chance to discharge their own weapons. Also, stating that the officers never went in the apartment:
Quote:
As they approached the apartment, Chief McFee said they were shot by a young male suspect.
"At this time, all indications are that they did not have a chance to discharge their firearms," he said.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64971967
Sound like he was waiting for the officers to come and shot them as they approached the apartment.
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03-17-2023, 11:16 AM
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#29
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Franchise Player
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I’d like to know how a 16/17-year-old kid gets his hands on a gun.
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03-17-2023, 11:18 AM
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#30
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyGuy
I’d like to know how a 16/17-year-old kid gets his hands on a gun.
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Yes, or what type of gun it was.
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03-17-2023, 11:21 AM
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#31
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 Ball
Yes, or what type of gun it was.
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That's a good question. If it's a handgun and he managed to take down two cops before they got a shot off, you'd assume he has quite a bit of experience with the hand gun.
Do we know if the shooter was known to police?
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03-17-2023, 11:44 AM
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#32
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyGuy
I’d like to know how a 16/17-year-old kid gets his hands on a gun.
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We'll its pretty unlikely that he walked into a friendly neighbourhood guns r us, filled out the paper work, wrote a check, waited for the paperwork to be taken in and all the other hoops you have to jump through to buy a legal gun.
I expect he bought it off the street, maybe he was a member of a gang, who knows.
But I have my doubts that this was a legal firearm.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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03-17-2023, 12:08 PM
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#33
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
We're becoming the US. Soon officers will have to answer domestic call with guns drawn. And of course, at some point, an officer will shoot first.
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No, we’re not.
The US is a country where everyone is armed, or could be.
In Canada, there are very specific laws about how you can transport guns, where you use them, and how you need to store them securely.
If this is a legally-owned gun, the owner was obviously not following the law, and a tragically unbalanced child gained access to a weapon and killed two cops. If those procedures were followed correctly by the gun owner, those two men would be alive.
Tragedies are inevitable when you have 10M+ guns in a country.
But they don’t happen with nearly the frequency of the US because almost nobody who isn’t actively involved in organized crime has a gun on them.
Except when they’re at home, and have immediate access.
How officers approach residences on domestic calls should be reviewed, and I’m sure they will be.
Our ability as a nation to (generally) use these things responsibly should be held up as shining example to the world of effective gun control without outright prohibition.
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03-17-2023, 12:11 PM
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#34
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Franchise Player
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Any update on the mother? Hopefully she survives.
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03-17-2023, 12:25 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Sorry, it's semantics and splitting hairs. My concerns about wording has nothing to do with the situation and I meant it that from my perspective that it seems unnecessarily cynical to use the word ambush. Using this term might put people more on edge in an "us vs them" situation when going into an unknown situation. It might make us feel more worried for no reason about the state of the world. That's what I mean.
I didn't intend on stirring anything up. If my comment frustrated anyone, I apologize. Just consider I'm musing out loud and that I'm an unimportant idiot. I'll clarify what I meant and walk out of the thread.
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I agree with CaptainCrunch that it is a sad situation and a waste of life. I get where you guys are coming from and what you mean. I'm just an idiot mumbling dumb things out loud.
I read the article and I just don't come the the same "ambush" intent type of conclusion or evaluation. Like it wasn't a planned ambush, it was more like a panicked attack on two guys who didn't know what the situation was. To ambush IMO the kid would have had to have the intention to want to try and injure or kill a cop and intend on use the mother's situation and the subsequent call to carry out a plan, then die from a self inflicted gunshot would. I just don't like thinking this was what he actually wanted to do. I get why you guys agree ambush is an OK word because the article specifically states the cops didn't have time to pull our their weapons. I'm splitting hairs musing from the perspective of more 2nd degree murder for the cops vs first degree, because it just feels sadder to think it could be first degree... if that makes sense.
I don't know what was going on in the kid's head, for sure. I'd rather live life, having read this story, thinking he didn't start the day intending to harm more than his mother, before taking their own life. The world is crazy enough. Thinking this type of crazy is just around the corner and hidden everywhere is too much. Just consider that I read this with a more naive wishful thinking that it was pure random and not intentional.
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03-17-2023, 12:31 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Any update on the mother? Hopefully she survives.
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Serious but stable condition early this morning. She had to be devastated. I wonder what happened on that home.
Last edited by MoneyGuy; 03-17-2023 at 12:33 PM.
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03-17-2023, 12:32 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Any update on the mother? Hopefully she survives.
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Overheard on the radio that she's stable as of late last night
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03-17-2023, 01:04 PM
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#38
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Norm!
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Not the first shooting for the teenager
https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/teen-who...rces-1.6317912
Quote:
Multiple sources have now confirmed the boy is also responsible for a shooting early Sunday morning that left a 55-year-old man with life-threatening injuries.
A shooter walked into the Pizza Hut at 114 Avenue and 132 Street around 12:30 a.m. on Sunday, and shot the employee.
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Video
https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/teen-who...rces-1.6317912
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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03-17-2023, 01:06 PM
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#39
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Draft Pick
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The shooter is also responsible for a random shooting at a pizza hut a few days earlier, almost killing the employee
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03-17-2023, 01:21 PM
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#40
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
No, we’re not.
The US is a country where everyone is armed, or could be.
In Canada, there are very specific laws about how you can transport guns, where you use them, and how you need to store them securely.
If this is a legally-owned gun, the owner was obviously not following the law, and a tragically unbalanced child gained access to a weapon and killed two cops. If those procedures were followed correctly by the gun owner, those two men would be alive.
Tragedies are inevitable when you have 10M+ guns in a country.
But they don’t happen with nearly the frequency of the US because almost nobody who isn’t actively involved in organized crime has a gun on them.
Except when they’re at home, and have immediate access.
How officers approach residences on domestic calls should be reviewed, and I’m sure they will be.
Our ability as a nation to (generally) use these things responsibly should be held up as shining example to the world of effective gun control without outright prohibition.
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I agree and hope you are right.
I'm with others here, interested in the 911 call. Order of events is important here. When was the call made, by who and what was said to the operator?
What happens now? Since the teenager is dead, there is no trail, what will come out in the investigation? Will we know?
__________________
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