Calgary Openings, Closings, and Developments

[topfiverecords]

Once you've scored your XXL shopping cart full of 86 packs from Costco, go for a stroll through the unique, state-of-the-art, pedestrian-oriented shopping and lifestyle centre in the heart of Springbank!!

Just a short walk down Ridge Road 33!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by timun

The argument, from the legal decisions I've read (see the latest (2022 ABCA 293) and the sordid history of the last three years...), centres on the premise that the steel structure's spray-applied fireproofing contains asbestos and it posed a danger to the occupants. It is super-common in office buildings that the space above the ceilings is used as a 'plenum' for air to be returned back to the air-handling system (whereas in, say, a healthcare facility air will be ducted back to the air-handler for infection prevention and control reasons), and in the case of the Nexen Building—or rather, "801 Seventh" now—the fireproofing is directly exposed to the plenum and thereby asbestos fibres could be pick up, circulated back into the air-handling system and cause health problems for the occupants.

There's no doubt the fireproofing has asbestos in it, it's just a question of whether it poses a risk to the occupants or not. CNOOC argued it was and used it as the reason to break their lease and move into Brookfield Place. The landlord's counterargument is it's total BS because unless you damage the fireproofing in some way there's no way for the embedded asbestos to be released.

Granted I'm not an asbestos expert but I do know building HVAC systems, and in my experience what CNOOC is arguing is super-flimsy BS. There is no reason for asbestos fibres to be released from the fireproofing unless quite deliberately disturbed, and even on the flimsy assumption that asbestos was released and particles were light enough to be carried away and into the air-handling unit, the filters at the AHU should be MERV 7 or 8: more than sufficient to filter it out anyway.

It's a super-shaky excuse, and CNOOC's legal counsel is being as obstinate as possible about it.

Thanks for the summary.

It still sounds like a tough one for the actual humans occupying the space...reminds me of oil execs drinking a glass of contaminated water at a press conference - but would they drink it every day?

With that many occupants in a building, several are going to end up with cancer...almost certainly unrelated to the stuff in the ceiling, but what happens to employee morale and willingness to spend 8 hrs a day there?

Absolute risk may be near zero, but perceived risk might be more important?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I don't think the likes of Amazon, Microsoft, and Google will ever announced publically where their exact data center locations would be. Isn't this one way to secure a datacenter - not telling people where the buildings are so they can't physcially damage them?

They don't say exactly where they are, but Azure Canada Central is Toronto, Canada East is Montreal, for instance.

I can tell you where Sasktel's datacenter is in Calgary, but only because we used to colo there.

And you can see where Telus's really old datacenter is because it's so poorly designed you can see through the windows when it's dark.

[Shazam]

I thought CNOOC moved so that the tin tower could be renovated, since the hvac in that building sucks gigantic donkey balls, and then when they started tearing things apart they found the asbestos and that's when it all went to poop. The original intent was that cnooc was going to move back in.

[timun]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Just a short walk down Ridge Road 33!

Range Road

[timun]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Thanks for the summary.

It still sounds like a tough one for the actual humans occupying the space...reminds me of oil execs drinking a glass of contaminated water at a press conference - but would they drink it every day?

With that many occupants in a building, several are going to end up with cancer...almost certainly unrelated to the stuff in the ceiling, but what happens to employee morale and willingness to spend 8 hrs a day there?

Absolute risk may be near zero, but perceived risk might be more important?

Oh it's entirely perception, based on inflammatory and panicked rhetoric. That's essentially what CNOOC's entire legal argument is: the perceived risk is too high for them to continue to occupy the space. The issue is whether or not CNOOC deliberately crafted this narrative in order to plant the seeds for breaking their lease. Up to the courts to decide, but in my opinion from what I've seen, it sure seems like CNOOC fanned the flames of paranoia and fear in order to get out of an expensive lease for far more space than they needed.


In reality, if you've ever set foot in a building built before 1983(ish), you've been surrounded by asbestos. Fireproofing spray, drywall compound, duct mastic, floor tiles: it was used all over the place, and it's not dangerous if you just leave it.

[Shazam]

Well the bar for what’s safe and not has been moved all over, so they’ll probably win.

[psyang]

Originally Posted by timun

I doubt the veracity of that story, psyang. When it comes to "power centre" malls, big tenants like Costco get their way. The developer either plays ball with them, or Costco walks. I don't do much work on commercial/retail developments anymore, but when I did, I never once saw a developer dictate the design of finishes to a tenant like Costco.

Costco will work with municipalities to revise setbacks, drive aisles in the parking lot; things like that. Aesthetically, they always look the same though, and Costco will never ever compromise its branding.

I found the Bingham Crossing planning document, and it does describe some design guidelines including:
-earthtone color scheme
-use of brick/stone for store fronts
-overhangs on entrances for anchor stores

Then I found some renderings from the approved Costco application (spoilered for size):

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Not saying you aren't right, but the renderings do show a Costco that is trying to conform to at least some of the guidelines.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I thought CNOOC moved so that the tin tower could be renovated, since the hvac in that building sucks gigantic donkey balls, and then when they started tearing things apart they found the asbestos and that's when it all went to poop. The original intent was that cnooc was going to move back in.

No, CNOOC alleged they 'discovered' the asbestos in 2017, hired consultants to do testing/investigation (as did the landlord), and CNOOC concluded "this space is unfit for our occupancy because it's unsafe" and signed a sublease from Cenovus at the end of 2018. They moved out and stopped paying their rent at Nexen Building in the spring of 2019. There was no intent for them to move back in... (Their lease was signed near the peak of the market in December, 2013, and was for a preposterous 18-year term that expired the end of 2031.)

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by timun

Range Road

How can you tell I don't go west of 14th street.

[timun]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

How can you tell I don't go west of 14th street.

Or outside of the city at all, I guess.

(Range roads run N-S; township roads go E-W. They're spaced in a 1-mile-by-1-mile grid.)

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by timun

Or outside of the city at all, I guess.

(Range roads run N-S; township roads go E-W. They're spaced in a 1-mile-by-1-mile grid.)

Exactly. My current boundary is 14th St NW, 9th St NE, 16th Ave NW, 25th Ave S.

Why ever leave?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by timun

No, CNOOC alleged they 'discovered' the asbestos in 2017, hired consultants to do testing/investigation (as did the landlord), and CNOOC concluded "this space is unfit for our occupancy because it's unsafe" and signed a sublease from Cenovus at the end of 2018. They moved out and stopped paying their rent at Nexen Building in the spring of 2019. There was no intent for them to move back in... (Their lease was signed near the peak of the market in December, 2013, and was for a preposterous 28-year term that expired the end of 2031.)

Damn, they really tried asbestos they could to bail on that lease

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by you&me

The Western Standard, with the hard-hitting and insightful stories. A liquor store and a gas bar at a Costco you say?

I hope they report next on whether or not the building will have a roof.

Now if it will have diesel, then it's news!

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

How can you tell I don't go west of 14th street.

Originally Posted by timun

Or outside of the city at all, I guess.

(Range roads run N-S; township roads go E-W. They're spaced in a 1-mile-by-1-mile grid.)

Slight correction, Township roads are at 2 mile spacing, Range Roads are indeed 1 mile. That allows access to any 1/4 Section of land from a road while minimizing how many roads (or road allowances) are required.

[topfiverecords]

Look at that. Google thinks it's Ridge Rd too.

[Fuzz]

LOL. Weird:



It deos the same thing on roads east and west of this one. But it is Range, not Ridge:

https://goo.gl/maps/C41uhj97nzBTDiMh7

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Thought it was Ribbed Road, for your driving pleasure.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Slight correction, Township roads are at 2 mile spacing, Range Roads are indeed 1 mile. That allows access to any 1/4 Section of land from a road while minimizing how many roads (or road allowances) are required.

Alright, you got me, I'm not an expert on the ATS/DLS. I just know I've been in some MDs where they do have township roads every mile, and ultimately the numbers at the end correspond to miles from the south edge of the township. I.e. from Twp Rd ##0, going north, Twp Rd ##1 (if there is one) is in a mile, then ##2, ##3 (if there is one ), ##4, ##5, then the second digit increments up. E.g. Twp Rd 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 280, etc.


I do know, without a shadow of a doubt, it's RANGE roads though, not "Ridge" road!

[timun]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Exactly. My current boundary is 14th St NW, 9th St NE, 16th Ave NW, 25th Ave S.

Why ever leave?

That's fair. Mine is effectively Shaganappi Tr, 32nd Ave N, Glenmore and Blackfoot.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by timun

No, CNOOC alleged they 'discovered' the asbestos in 2017, hired consultants to do testing/investigation (as did the landlord), and CNOOC concluded "this space is unfit for our occupancy because it's unsafe" and signed a sublease from Cenovus at the end of 2018. They moved out and stopped paying their rent at Nexen Building in the spring of 2019. There was no intent for them to move back in... (Their lease was signed near the peak of the market in December, 2013, and was for a preposterous 28-year term that expired the end of 2031.)

Yeah, I knew about the term, that was nuts.

Wow, did not know they found the asbestos so early lol. Amazing considering the food court they opened up at the time.