Sutter is the problem

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Although I see your point. its pretty tough to compare Johnston to Sutter

Yeah and almost as hard to compare Huberdeau to Crosby.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I don't have the stats handy but I'm curious who has more posts this season, Paulie Walnuts or the Flames?

Without checking I bet pw has 50 in this thread alone.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Yikes

"They" = Flames. First 7 games I thought they might lose 20 to 25 on the season. Anyways....I am not in the Sutter camp at all and never have been. Was happy to see him go and not surprised to see him back, as mentioned the Flames are the only team dumb enough or desperate enough to hire him. He is an antique, polarizing dude with a shelf life.

Fair, don't remember many complaints last year, but everyone is entitled to what they think.

I would add though that the short shelf life thing is a complete myth. The only 2 coaching tenures Sutter was ever fired from were longer than any tenure of any coach in Flames history.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Maybe, maybe not. I have a ton of experience with French employees so I guess I am adding that in. I also have a ton of mid-management hiring/firing experience...with that in mind, FOR SURE I would never hire a guy like Sutter for any position, #### disturber type...I would consider this a bad hire by anyone.

I assume then you would have said the same thing before LA hired him?

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I assume then you would have said the same thing before LA hired him?

After the mess he left here? I was shocked he was hired by anyone for anything hockey related.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Without checking I bet pw has 50 in this thread alone.

Nice guess! 51.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Yikes

After the mess he left here? I was shocked he was hired by anyone for anything hockey related.

That mess was just moving a few things around to make room for the Stanley Cups.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Without checking I bet pw has 50 in this thread alone.

PW is being stifled by the coach.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

That mess was just moving a few things around to make room for the Stanley Cups.

The man has horseshoes up his ass. Anyways....you all know how I feel. I want the farmer gone, sick of his crap, sick of his brand of hockey. I like the team, hate the coaching.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Yikes

After the mess he left here? I was shocked he was hired by anyone for anything hockey related.

So, one might argue your ability to evaluate who is a good hockey hire. He won 2 cups and made the conference finals another season. If you’re LA, you’re ecstatic with those results.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Yikes

The man has horseshoes up his ass. Anyways....you all know how I feel. I want the farmer gone, sick of his crap, sick of his brand of hockey. I like the team, hate the coaching.

You're too far into the ditch on this one.

An argument can be made that his hardline stance isn't working with the modern athlete, and that a shot volume approach isn't working as effectively against modern NHL goaltending.

Suggesting his wealth of success was luck though just paints you as so biased on a topic that you really can't add to the discussion.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Yikes

The man has horseshoes up his ass. Anyways....you all know how I feel. I want the farmer gone, sick of his crap, sick of his brand of hockey. I like the team, hate the coaching.

Lol, horseshoes? The man never missed the playoffs in a full season of coaching till his last years in LA. That means he’s good at his job.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're too far into the ditch on this one.

An argument can be made that his hardline stance isn't working with the modern athlete, and that a shot volume approach isn't working as effectively against modern NHL goaltending.

Suggesting his wealth of success was luck though just paints you as so biased on a topic that you really can't add to the discussion.

Bias? Absolutely. Sutter is on the same list as Smith, Justin and a couple of others...once I hear his voice I change the channel. No interest trying to decipher "Sutterisms" or hiring a linguist to figure out the mumbles. On a lighter note, my hair is Yikes! looking for a new barber/stylist in the Altadore/Marda Loop area, suggestions?

[Hockey_Ninja]

I’m sorry but is there any evidence outside of imagining the worst case scenario that Sutter wants to be or will be GM again?

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Yikes

The man has horseshoes up his ass. Anyways....you all know how I feel. I want the farmer gone, sick of his crap, sick of his brand of hockey. I like the team, hate the coaching.

Stanley cup winning teams all have these things in common when it comes down to the last 2 rounds of the playoffs
- good goaltending
- solid defensive zone play
- opportune goal scoring

From what I see, this is the type of game the flames are trying to develop

It appears you are wanting to watch a style that is being played north of here, talk about horseshoes

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well first of all the disrespect Darryl has shown since Huberdeau has gotten here and how has been handled is top of mind. Even today heaping praise on Dube for being the ultimate team guy, and putting the blame on Huberdeau for not producing on Right Wing when asked. Publicly declaring we have no star players when Huberdeau out produced his stars that he chased away.

He also strapped Lucic on a line with him. When you want to compare Kaprizov to Huberdeau, at which point was he playing with Ryan Reaves this season? Thats the comparable you have with dumping Lucic on his line.

Kaprizov is also playing 21 minutes, if Huberdeau was getting that type of ice time and putting up these pedestrian numbers I would put a lot more blame on him. The fact is he is a star player who was told to get in line and play like Trevor Lewis and had his ice time reduced by almost 4 minutes a game.

His utilization has been poor from the get go, got a few games with Lindholm and that was it. Team was 5-2 and Sutter just screwed the season with his line juggling. Hes been strapped to Kadri who everyone can pinpoint is a terrible fit for Huberdeau and have developed zero chemistry but according to Darryl this is the pair he said so today so we gotta live with it.

The powerplay doesn't even run through Huberdeau.

He also has not given him the same rope he gave Tkachuk and Gaudreau if you think those two guys played Sutters way to a T you are kidding yourselves. They relied on Lindholm to do the heavy lifting and get the puck to them quickly as they bolted the defensive zone. Look at the metrics from last season Lindholm got a selke nomination and his defensive numbers came in worse but thats because he was the one doing a lot of the dirty work allowing those two freedom, and he benefited himself with a huge year.

I don't see the same rope give to Huberdeau, and I also see a guy trying too hard to do things the right way and his game has suffered. I do not see a lazy player like you said, the only thing lazy is the head coach who has so far done nothing to utilize the player properly.

Can Huberdeau take blame absolute he can be better, but the style Darryl wants it will not mesh with him. He needs to be given the same freedoms other players have received. I don't see Sutter blasting Kadri for being a puck hog, or his lazy backchecks.

This just isn't a Huberdeau thing as well. Like I have said many star players have had offensive numbers dip with Darryl as a coach.

Heck not even a star but he pretty much embarrassed Dustin Brown in LA and destroyed the guy and he hardly looked like a NHL player. Once Darryl was gone he suddenly looked better.

Why is Lindholms numbers half of what he was at last season? What about Mangiapane? Its not just Huberdeau this is a what you get with a Darryl Sutter coached team. I would argue last season was not Darryl Sutter hockey, this season is more a Darryl Sutter season. A team struggling to score trying to win every game 2-1.

Why is Toffoli producing? Because he has done it before that's the type of player he is and has always been a easy guy to put into your lineup and get production from.

Well actually, Sutter’s been bemoaning about the lack of game breakers on this team which is true. In all these one goal games, someone needs to step up and make a play and it hasn’t happened all season long. So it’s a pretty fair statement especially since he’s asking for someone, not just one specific player.

Secondly, with less than one month to go on the season, the Lucic-Kadri-Huberdeau line is still easily the most productive line that Huberdeau has played on, 3 x more productive than 10-28-73 and double the beloved Pelletier-Huberdeau combo. This is just a statistical fact I’m stating at this point, Lucic has basically been Huberdeau’s most productive linemate this season, so the complaints about this can stop.

Thirdly, I’m only using Kaprizov as a comparison to style/system. Not all players suffer statistically because they’re forced to play in a stifling defense first system. Kaprizov would probably be just fine under Sutter.

As for the Lindholm thing, as already pointed out above, was not a good combo. They scored 4 goals in the roughly 12-13 games they played together, 4! He’s played with just about everyone on the team this season and that pair has been just about the worst producing combo when they’re together. Toffoli and Lindholm are way better off away from him, their styles just do not mix.

You know why Toffoli and Lindholm lead the team in scoring this season? There’s an actual reason, not just some basic because “that’s the type of player he is” or he’s an “easy guy to put in your line up.” It’s because he and Lindholm have bought into Darryl’s strategy of checking for your chances. Actually, this isn’t even a Darryl thing, every coach the Flames have had since Gulutzan have talking about this.

Regardless, if you watch Toffoli and Lindholm, they’re constantly buzzing around the ozone creating their chances off their ability to check. Even with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, everyone just remembers the fancy goals they scored. But if you watched those guys closely, they played dump and chase all the time, but they were just so good at getting in quickly on the forecheck and winning puck battles, winning 50/50s that they made it look seamless.

That’s what ultimately made that line really successful, even if Gaudreau couldn’t out right win puck battles by himself, he used his elite acceleration to quickly close gaps and delay so his linemates could jump in and out number the opposition down low. Even with the spamming of point shots, it’s the dmen that are asked to shoot, not the forwards, so they directed lots of pucks to the net. But that’s the point of checking, the ones that do it well in Darryl’s system have success.

So, the idea that they just ignored Sutter’s system is absurd. They would’ve been benched, but instead, they got lots of minutes because they were successful playing his system. Sure, their ability to create on the rush was a component that lead to them scoring 100+ points and 40 goals each, but make no mistake, their ability to check in all 3 zones made them deadly both offensively and defensively. If Huberdeau wants to ever have playoff success, then he’s going to have to learn how to play this way because there’s no time and space in the playoffs. So until he figures these different components out, then I don’t think he’s going to be a factor under Darryl or in the playoffs.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Stanley cup winning teams all have these things in common when it comes down to the last 2 rounds of the playoffs
- good goaltending
- solid defensive zone play
- opportune goal scoring

From what I see, this is the type of game the flames are trying to develop

It appears you are wanting to watch a style that is being played north of here, talk about horseshoes

Sutter knows this. It doesn't matter how good a player is, come playoffs players need to adjust. If your star players are playing a soft, lazy, perimeter. East/West style of game they will not succeed.

In the playoffs, cross ice passes almost always get picked off, everyone becomes a shot blocker and even your star players will need to get to the net, deflect pucks, pick up rebounds and play a high-speed North/South game.

Sure, we could fire Sutter and get a coach that lets Huberdeau play his game and he gets his 100 points, and we make the playoffs. But we probably lose in the first round like we did when we had Johnny most years.

Johnny's best playoffs and season was under Sutter. Huberdeau needs to adjust more than anyone right now.

Sutter line combos could get him fired though.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Stanley cup winning teams all have these things in common when it comes down to the last 2 rounds of the playoffs
- good goaltending
- solid defensive zone play
- opportune goal scoring

From what I see, this is the type of game the flames are trying to develop

It appears you are wanting to watch a style that is being played north of here, talk about horseshoes

Stanley cup winning teams have multiple franchise players and usually 4+ stars.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by saillias

Stanley cup winning teams have multiple franchise players and usually 4+ stars.

St. Louis says hi.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by saillias

Stanley cup winning teams have multiple franchise players and usually 4+ stars.

True
And
I know we don’t quite have that talent, Sutter himself has mentioned that we lack gamebreakers
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t at least try to play a style that wins