Sutter is the problem

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Do you communicate with your boss while on vacation?

I get 2-4 weeks away from my bosses.

Sutter is on vacation from April-September. Picking up the phone to just welcome new guys is difficult?

He has the time to recruit Erik Gudbranson but cant welcome new players? Does that seem ok to you?

[Toonage]

Sutter talked about calling all the players during the off season to go over whats expected of them, workout routines etc. To not call new players (if thats what occurred?) when he goes to those lengths for contracted players in the off season does seem odd.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I get 2-4 weeks away from my bosses.

Sutter is on vacation from April-September. Picking up the phone to just welcome new guys is difficult?

He has the time to recruit Erik Gudbranson but cant welcome new players? Does that seem ok to you?

He already had a relationship with Gudbranson from Anaheim. I just feel like you are really reaching for outrage.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

He already had a relationship with Gudbranson from Anaheim. I just feel like you are really reaching for outrage.

I am not reaching for outrage. I am just marrying on to what Bingo said that he seems to be out to stick it to someone and that someone seems to be Brad Treliving and Huberdeau is being caught in the cross fire here.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I get 2-4 weeks away from my bosses.

Sutter is on vacation from April-September. Picking up the phone to just welcome new guys is difficult?

He has the time to recruit Erik Gudbranson but cant welcome new players? Does that seem ok to you?

With Gudbranson that's someone Sutter was familiar with. That was probably initiated through a discussion with Tre. Welcoming the new players was probably done through the GM. Coach is going to meet them anyways. Does Sutter as a coach have a history of calling players being brought in as this doesn't seem all that unusual?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Blech. CP is becoming its own cesspool.

Well, you are seemingly part of this community. So if you want to have better conversations, bring them to the table. Start topics that you feel are worth discussing - or challenge other people’s opinions in meaningful ways to spark interesting debate.

We’re all part of this community by choice, we steer it.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

He already had a relationship with Gudbranson from Anaheim. I just feel like you are really reaching for outrage.

PW seems like most of the time he engages just to cause a reaction.

Tempted to put him on "ignore" as then most of the thread would go away. Getting tired of the schtick personally.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I get 2-4 weeks away from my bosses.

Sutter is on vacation from April-September. Picking up the phone to just welcome new guys is difficult?

He has the time to recruit Erik Gudbranson but cant welcome new players? Does that seem ok to you?

You must see that at this point you have a fixation on the guy, and see "wrong" in literally every single thing that his name attached to it.

I'm expecting his choice of John Deer over Case is an example of not liking the colour red and purposely sabotaging the franchise.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

There must be folks with a LOT more time on their hands than me....wow. Just....wow.

So much indiscriminate horse puckey. Darryl would like that.

{insert: No he wouldn't!}

Blech. CP is becoming its own cesspool.

lol

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You must see that at this point you have a fixation on the guy, and see "wrong" in literally every single thing that his name attached to it.

I'm expecting his choice of John Deer over Case is an example of not liking the colour red and purposely sabotaging the franchise.

It does seem that way agreed, but thats because of whats he put out there this season.

There are plenty of good things he can do, but I think he is outdated in his approach especially when you look at the league.

Its best he leave the organization after this season before things become even more toxic like his last go around.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It does seem that way agreed, but thats because of whats he put out there this season.

There are plenty of good things he can do, but I think he is outdated in his approach especially when you look at the league.

Its best he leave the organization after this season before things become even more toxic like his last go around.

I'm with you, not as "fixated" but strongly in the camp that needs to see him go back to the ranch, no position within the Flames org at all. I'm tired of his crap.

[Major Major]

I think that a lot of what Sutter does has to do with tension and release. Build tension, make people uncomfortable, have them climb the mountain, then make things easier on the other side. Can you lift the 100 lb weight? Great, now lift the 50 lb weight... Feels like you can throw it.

He actively tries to break players to a team first mentality and to completely get rid of the what about me attitude. We saw it with Johnny and him awkwardly trying to dump the puck in at the blue line with no pressure, etc.

I think what has people really frustrated is he concentrates most of this to his star players and young players. It makes total sense in my mind since you need the star players to lead and be dominant, you need the young players to max out their potential. Your role players though? You just need them to fill a specific role. They have no potential and they're not going to be dominant, and yet you still need them. So they seem to be operating with different expectations because they are.

This breaks down in a big way though when the star player doesn't climb the mountain. Call that a failure on the coach if you want... I don't. But Huberdeau's what about me attitude is still there. Sutter's given him the lighter weight regardless and we'll see where it goes.

This may seem like an anti-Huberdeau post, but it's not. I like the guy and think he's dealing with a ton of pressure and noise right now and needs to remember he's Johnny freaking Huberdeau. He needs to get over whatever's bothering him, be it the coach, being a flame, his agent. He's the only one that can get himself out of this.

At the end of the day, if the team finds no success, then Sutter has to account for that and I hope that there is a process where that actually happens, but I don't think that leads to him being fired nor do I think they should.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I think that a lot of what Sutter does has to do with tension and release. Build tension, make people uncomfortable, have them climb the mountain, then make things easier on the other side. Can you lift the 100 lb weight? Great, now lift the 50 lb weight... Feels like you can throw it.

He actively tries to break players to a team first mentality and to completely get rid of the what about me attitude. We saw it with Johnny and him awkwardly trying to dump the puck in at the blue line with no pressure, etc.

I think what has people really frustrated is he concentrates most of this to his star players and young players. It makes total sense in my mind since you need the star players to lead and be dominant, you need the young players to max out their potential. Your role players though? You just need them to fill a specific role. They have no potential and they're not going to be dominant, and yet you still need them. So they seem to be operating with different expectations because they are.

This breaks down in a big way though when the star player doesn't climb the mountain. Call that a failure on the coach if you want... I don't. But Huberdeau's what about me attitude is still there. Sutter's given him the lighter weight regardless and we'll see where it goes.

This may seem like an anti-Huberdeau post, but it's not. I like the guy and think he's dealing with a ton of pressure and noise right now and needs to remember he's Johnny freaking Huberdeau. He needs to get over whatever's bothering him, be it the coach, being a flame, his agent. He's the only one that can get himself out of this.

At the end of the day, if the team finds no success, then Sutter has to account for that and I hope that there is a process where that actually happens, but I don't think that leads to him being fired nor do I think they should.

Nope, sorry. The coach is the one that needs to adapt to new talent coming in. Utilize what exists instead of trying to change it. As mentioned, Sutter is the guy that pushes Doug Flutie to the pocket and tells him to stay there. Sutter is not the coach for this version of the Flames.

[TheIronMaiden]

If you are not good enough to adapt to any system of play and thrive, than you are not worth 10.5 million.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Nope, sorry. The coach is the one that needs to adapt to new talent coming in. Utilize what exists instead of trying to change it. As mentioned, Sutter is the guy that pushes Doug Flutie to the pocket and tells him to stay there. Sutter is not the coach for this version of the Flames.

Gadreau and Tkachuk were able to adapt and became better players because of it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I think that a lot of what Sutter does has to do with tension and release. Build tension, make people uncomfortable, have them climb the mountain, then make things easier on the other side. Can you lift the 100 lb weight? Great, now lift the 50 lb weight... Feels like you can throw it.

He actively tries to break players to a team first mentality and to completely get rid of the what about me attitude. We saw it with Johnny and him awkwardly trying to dump the puck in at the blue line with no pressure, etc.

I think what has people really frustrated is he concentrates most of this to his star players and young players. It makes total sense in my mind since you need the star players to lead and be dominant, you need the young players to max out their potential. Your role players though? You just need them to fill a specific role. They have no potential and they're not going to be dominant, and yet you still need them. So they seem to be operating with different expectations because they are.

This breaks down in a big way though when the star player doesn't climb the mountain. Call that a failure on the coach if you want... I don't. But Huberdeau's what about me attitude is still there. Sutter's given him the lighter weight regardless and we'll see where it goes.

This may seem like an anti-Huberdeau post, but it's not. I like the guy and think he's dealing with a ton of pressure and noise right now and needs to remember he's Johnny freaking Huberdeau. He needs to get over whatever's bothering him, be it the coach, being a flame, his agent. He's the only one that can get himself out of this.

At the end of the day, if the team finds no success, then Sutter has to account for that and I hope that there is a process where that actually happens, but I don't think that leads to him being fired nor do I think they should.

Your description is accurate in what type of culture he breads on his team. He wants to treat this like an army, and that type of style wont work not with todays players.

115 points 2nd in the league in points wasn't dominant enough he needed to break him down and let him know hes not a star go to your off wing and become a 50 point player like the rest of the team.

Creating confrontation and tension with everyone. Might work with some but not everyone.

Forcing this way and style on these players just confirms that its his way no matter if we win or lose and this style just doesn't work on todays people and players. Mike Babcock was punted for embarrassing Mitch Marner.

There was a podcast in the offseason with John Stevens he talked about how last years Flames looked like a team that started to play for individual stats and it was pissing Sutter off. I wonder if that was meant as a shot for Tkachuk.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Gadreau and Tkachuk were able to adapt and became better players because of it.

Both bolted the first chance they got from the magnificent coaching of Darryl Sutter.

They got a lot more rope from Sutter to play a more dangerous game or they just bucked the system and played for stats. Two guys on contract years that needed to do something big to get their values back up

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

the magnificent coaching of Darryl Sutter.

Yep I'm done conversing with you on this one. Have fun.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Nope, sorry. The coach is the one that needs to adapt to new talent coming in. Utilize what exists instead of trying to change it. As mentioned, Sutter is the guy that pushes Doug Flutie to the pocket and tells him to stay there. Sutter is not the coach for this version of the Flames.

I can't give him that leeway after him commenting that he'd seen winning hockey because it smacked him in the face (paraphrasing) last spring and saying he knew Darryl was the one to teach him. The team mentality works. You're not going to find a lot of championship teams that don't make this an absolute.

When Lou took the air the other night and said that Huberdeau still isn't over the trade, still isn't really adapted to even being here, it put things in perspective for me. Tough to work with that as a coach.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I can't give him that leeway after him commenting that he'd seen winning hockey because it smacked him in the face (paraphrasing) last spring and saying he knew Darryl was the one to teach him. The team mentality works. You're not going to find a lot of championship teams that don't make this an absolute.

When Lou took the air the other night and said that Huberdeau still isn't over the trade, still isn't really adapted to even being here, it put things in perspective for me. Tough to work with that as a coach.

If Lou is right about this (which sometimes I wonder how they would really know these kinds of details) then it’s very concerning. I’m sure there was initial shock at the trade and he was blindsided, but his new team made him the face of their franchise and proved with the contract offered that they wanted him. Would it not be time to move on from the trade and accept the fact that the Flames believed in you. I’m starting to think Florida saw something with Huberdeau that raised flags. How often do you see a 115 point player developed by the organization traded?

Sure looking like a steal right now for the panthers. I don’t get Huberdeau’s thought process (if Lou is correct). Would you not want to stick it to the Panthers and show them they they made a huge mistake by trading you. Why be so hung up on the trade? That would give me extra motivation to want to show the hockey world that Florida made a mistake. Very strange.