Sutter is the problem

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But we see Backlund stick handle the puck off the side wall and go through player's feet and dangle.

We see Dube taking the puck wide with speed.

We see Mangiapane come out from behind the net and drive to the middle.

None of those are shoot the puck or else, or don't turn it over or else, or rim it or else.

And we see those nightly.

Kadri is either selfish as hell or very limited in what he sees on the ice.

Not sure I agree that they're being mandated at all (and I'm tired of Sutter too).

Yeah, those things happen in a game, they aren't robots. It's a question of frequency and consistency - do the Flames dump it in less, more, or about the same as most other teams? On rushes, do they take it to the outside less, more, or about the same as most teams? Do they fly the zone as much, or less than most teams? Do they rim it around the boards instead of passing through the middle more or less than most teams? Etc.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, those things happen in a game, they aren't robots. It's a question of frequency and consistency - do the Flames dump it in less, more, or about the same as most other teams? On rushes, do they take it to the outside less, more, or about the same as most teams? Do they fly the zone as much, or less than most teams? Do they rim it around the boards instead of passing through the middle more or less than most teams? Etc.

This team plays in the safe areas so if a turnover happens we aren't putting the puck in a dangerous area for the opposition to attack.

The issue is we do breakdown even playing it safe and it usually ends up in our net.

I wouldn't even call it dump and chase. It's more play along the walls rim it around have your defence stay at the blue line and fire usless point shots or just shoot into the crest.

On rare occasions our defence does jump like Andersson in Dallas and we score.

They are 100% being coached to be robots.

There is no other explanation why you would run 4 lines the way we do and avoid and line matches and riding a hot hand. It's robotic and moronic hockey.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, those things happen in a game, they aren't robots. It's a question of frequency and consistency - do the Flames dump it in less, more, or about the same as most other teams? On rushes, do they take it to the outside less, more, or about the same as most teams? Do they fly the zone as much, or less than most teams? Do they rim it around the boards instead of passing through the middle more or less than most teams? Etc.

IMO Flames must lead the league in 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 dump ins.

And if there was a way to track the amount of kms the puck travels when in the o zone they’d be first as 9 times out of 10 their D to D passes are rims around the boards.

Other teams I watch take more risks and make D to D passes at the blue line.

Also Flames hardly cherry pick other than that Tofolli goal vs the Stars.
I guess the system does not allow it.

Other teams do employ this strategy. Rangers, Canes and no goods come to mind.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

This team plays in the safe areas so if a turnover happens we aren't putting the puck in a dangerous area for the opposition to attack.

The issue is we do breakdown even playing it safe and it usually ends up in our net.

I wouldn't even call it dump and chase. It's more play along the walls rim it around have your defence stay at the blue line and fire usless point shots or just shoot into the crest.

On rare occasions our defence does jump like Andersson in Dallas and we score.

They are 100% being coached to be robots.

There is no other explanation why you would run 4 lines the way we do and avoid and line matches and riding a hot hand. It's robotic and moronic hockey.

I think they need to take the puck to the middle for sure. And I'd like to see them take a minute away from the fourth line and give 30 seconds to each of the top two lines.

But don't agree on the pinching ... we see it all the time. Andersson, Hanifin, Weegar and Tanev pinch literally every shift. Super aggressive on the pinch.

So I'm on board in questioning ice time splits, and shot volume, but don't see the robot thing at all.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well those players especially Tkachuk didn't want to play for him anymore.

We got players who want to be here.

It's his job to maximize their performance and he isn't doing that.

The point I was making was not whether JonnyG/MT wanted to play for Sutter, but that their play was very good and Sutter system seems to work well when he has a pair of elite players. The guys that have come in have to share some of the blame. If this leads to a coaching change will they improve or will they rule the roost? In the past we have had coaches come in but the players were often inconsistent and didn't always show up .Remember GG teams during that period of inconsistency, he kept saying they were not playing the system. They came accross as slow and didnt appear to be hard working teams.

I guess the question is, how many coaches do the Flames need before the players respond? There is plenty of blame to go around including Sutter. It could be he is frustrated too, that certain players are not responding like they do in a contract season. Honest question, what do we do if they don't respond to a new coach?

[btimbit]

Do we have any evidence that Tkachuk wanted to get away from Sutter, or was he just acting exactly like Keith Tkachuk's son?

[Flamesfan05]

Tkachuk played Treliving and got a free trip to Florida. That was long before Sutter showed up.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Do we have any evidence that Tkachuk wanted to get away from Sutter, or was he just acting exactly like Keith Tkachuk's son?

Nah there’s no actual evidence. In interviews since the trade when he’s asked about Sutter, he tends to not answer which has lead people to believe he wanted to get away from him

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Nah there’s no actual evidence. In interviews since the trade when he’s asked about Sutter, he tends to not answer which has lead people to believe he wanted to get away from him

I don’t think he has said much. Said Maurice is the greatest coach he has played for.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think they need to take the puck to the middle for sure. And I'd like to see them take a minute away from the fourth line and give 30 seconds to each of the top two lines.

But don't agree on the pinching ... we see it all the time. Andersson, Hanifin, Weegar and Tanev pinch literally every shift. Super aggressive on the pinch.

So I'm on board in questioning ice time splits, and shot volume, but don't see the robot thing at all.

They may pinch to keep the puck alive but they close along the walls and just rim it around. They are not making plays with the puck and getting into the dangerous areas. A lot of skate it along the walls to be safe or wire it on net with no screens set up.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I don’t think he has said much. Said Maurice is the greatest coach he has played for.

Anytime he's been asked about Treliving and Sutter he has said Brad is one the best people he has come across and he will keep his conversations and thoughts about Sutter to himself.

I'm no fan of Tkachuk but during Sutters entire tenure here I never once heard Tkachuk say anything postive about him or helping his game.

It could part of the Tkachuk brand but it's odd you speak highly of Brad and say nothing about Sutter.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

The point I was making was not whether JonnyG/MT wanted to play for Sutter, but that their play was very good and Sutter system seems to work well when he has a pair of elite players. The guys that have come in have to share some of the blame. If this leads to a coaching change will they improve or will they rule the roost? In the past we have had coaches come in but the players were often inconsistent and didn't always show up .Remember GG teams during that period of inconsistency, he kept saying they were not playing the system. They came accross as slow and didnt appear to be hard working teams.

I guess the question is, how many coaches do the Flames need before the players respond? There is plenty of blame to go around including Sutter. It could be he is frustrated too, that certain players are not responding like they do in a contract season. Honest question, what do we do if they don't respond to a new coach?

This is a different team like not the same at all. Who on this team played for Glen? Backlund?

Sutter was hired to get the most out of a bunch of guys who bolted or got traded.

This team needs a coach who will come in and put guys in a position to maximize skillsets.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I don’t think he has said much. Said Maurice is the greatest coach he has played for.

Tkachuk is full of #### confirmed lol.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Do we have any evidence that Tkachuk wanted to get away from Sutter, or was he just acting exactly like Keith Tkachuk's son?

I think the wheels were set in motion the day Treliving gave him that awful 3 year to ufa contract. Sutter likely just made saying adios all that much easier.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Anytime he's been asked about Treliving and Sutter he has said Brad is one the best people he has come across and he will keep his conversations and thoughts about Sutter to himself.

I'm no fan of Tkachuk but during Sutters entire tenure here I never once heard Tkachuk say anything postive about him or helping his game.

It could part of the Tkachuk brand but it's odd you speak highly of Brad and say nothing about Sutter.

I don't find that odd, and I like Sutter. I just think Brad is more of a people person. Sutter is aloof and I doubt Tkachuk spent a lot of time just chatting with him. I think Sutter does his work in practices, and leaves most off ice one one one to his ACs

[btimbit]

Everyone in hockey speaks highly of Brad, that's not weird for Tkachuk to bring him up too

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But we see Backlund stick handle the puck off the side wall and go through player's feet and dangle.

We see Dube taking the puck wide with speed.

We see Mangiapane come out from behind the net and drive to the middle.

None of those are shoot the puck or else, or don't turn it over or else, or rim it or else.

And we see those nightly.

Kadri is either selfish as hell or very limited in what he sees on the ice.

Not sure I agree that they're being mandated at all (and I'm tired of Sutter too).

I actually think Backs is a much better fit for Huberdeau. Backlund loves to carry, has a decent shot, decent speed, high IQ. But also pretty unselfish.

The play should almost always be forward (hopefully C) enters zone, dishes to Huberdeau, who finds someone who gets open. Kadri enters the zone and looks to shoot and develop a rebound. Not a bad play but also not helping Huberdeau at all.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't find that odd, and I like Sutter. I just think Brad is more of a people person. Sutter is aloof and I doubt Tkachuk spent a lot of time just chatting with him. I think Sutter does his work in practices, and leaves most off ice one one one to his ACs

Which makes having Sutter even more confusing when Brad said when he hired Peters that we need our coaches building relationships with players and out of the video rooms.

You need a coach who has the trust and relationships with players to push them but also come to them with issues they are having.

[chedder]

Not confusing if you believe that Treliving had nothing to do with the Sutter hire. Which was rumoured when it happened and now seems painfully obvious.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

This is a different team like not the same at all. Who on this team played for Glen? Backlund?

Sutter was hired to get the most out of a bunch of guys who bolted or got traded.

This team needs a coach who will come in and put guys in a position to maximize skillsets.

Lots of people know that Sutter coached teams tend to be hard working; As well that Flames have struggled to bring in a coach who can get consistency out of our teams. Sure the players have changed but how many coaches is it going to take?

Who do the Flames need to bring inf they can Sutter. Your suggestions are welcome? I get that you don't like Sutter, and I can agree to some of your takes but let's not let the players off the hook and let's not assume getting rid of Sutter will fix or improve the problem.