Sutter is the problem

[CFO]

Don't need to have guys 1.5x ppg - just consistent ppg.

Look at Carolina as an example.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

We’ve basically gone full circle with this endless search for a coach, it’s literally the definition of insanity. This place cried for an “elite” coach 2 years ago and they finally got their wish and now even an elite coach can make this fanbase happy. Like I’ve before, It does not matter who coaches this team, they will have their flaws and this fanbase will somehow unfairly crucify them anyway.

Do you think this season Sutter's coaching has been elite? In fact rate Sutter, 1 to 10.

[Erick Estrada]

I’m hoping he stands down and retires at the end of the season. He has to know his methods haven’t worked with this new group and guys like Huby and Kadri aren’t going anywhere.

[Flamesfan05]

Plenty of problems on this team. It’s not one thing. Funny people try to pin on one issue. This team need lucks and other team’s tanking just to make 8th spot.

Sutter
Markstrom/Vladar
Huberdeau/Kadri
Treliving
Mangiapane
And more….

[Paulie Walnuts]

Is Sutter an elite coach? Elite coaches don't get constantly out coached they don't roll 4 lines like they all contribute the same offence. Elite coaches adapt to their roster and style of game not force what they believe in. If you say hes elite because of the cups well we can also put guys like Berbue Sullivan in that tier as well?

Sutter produced medicore results in the regular season and tries to ride a hot goalie in the playoffs. He has coached bottom ranked offences for the majority of his coaching career. He's a good coach but he isn't the God coach like some people here believe he is.

[Mathgod]

The thing is too, Sutter is 64. Just like players eventually get past their prime, maybe the same is true for coaches...

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by rhino

Edwards who has allowed this team to max spend every year? Tre who replaced 2 high producers with 2 more? The coach is the one sitting a guy like PHILLIPS for 9 games after a call up, taking Ruzizka out despite him being at almost a point a game. Pushing Dube down to 4th line despite the fact he was producing? Playing Lucic almost 10 minutes a game despite his underlying numbers being horrendous? Playing musical chairs with goalies for most the season instead of seeing if Markstrom could play his way out of it earlier? After starting 5-2 changing the lines up. Playing a system where guys get burnt out by the second half of the game because the play “keep it on the boards”.

Alright, I'll bite.

1. Ruzicka isn't a PPG, Sutter only moved him down the lineup after he cooled off on the Lindholm - Toffoli line. He was given opportunities especially with Backlund - Coleman, but I believe he was playing with Huberdeau as well.
2. It's Ruzicka's play in the defensive zone, and lack of energy that made him sit.
3. I'll give you Phillips, but I'm guessing that Sutter doesn't like the way he checks. He probably didn't see enough out of him offensively to want him in the lineup. Contrast that to Pelletier who's been in the lineup for 20(?) games now.
4. Dube was pushed to the 4th line to get that line going. It was done a couple of times this season.
5. Lucic remains a mystery, but he was sat for a couple of games.
6. As for the goalies Markstrom couldn't stop a beach ball. He said he sucked at hockey. He let the 1st shot in on 7 occasions this season. Meanwhile Vladar had a 13 game point streak as a goalie. That was a good decision.
7. Sutter changed the lines after the EDM game because he wasn't seeing enough from them. The Dube - Kadri - Mangiapane line was the only line playing with pace.
8. Sutter doesn't tell the players to keep it along the boards and not drive to the net. Just look at last year's team. The players are the ones that are too afraid to make a mistake, so they go for the safe play.

I agree that a new coach can give a team a boost. However, this team has been through so many coaches. A coach is not a magic solution, some players will get better, others will get worse. I was skeptical that Sutter could fix most of the holes on this sinking ship of a team after the COVID season, but he did. As a result, last year was the most fun I had as a Flames fan during regular season, and it had Sutter's fingerprints all over it. He earned the chance to do it again next season.

[OutOfTheCube]

Yeah I was saying it back in November. Too late now.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by zamler

Do you think this season Sutter's coaching has been elite? In fact rate Sutter, 1 to 10.

8? The Flames outplay their opponent probably 80% of the time.

In 2 full seasons his teams have been top 5-10 in shots for and against, expected goals, almost any metric you choose.

This year they've struggled because their 2 most important players have both been bad. Sutter didn't fix it, so if he gets canned on that basis I get it. But he didn't tell his goalies to be Swiss cheese or the team's most important offensive player to not shoot and play horribly.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Plenty of problems on this team. It’s not one thing. Funny people try to pin on one issue. This team need lucks and other team’s tanking just to make 8th spot.

Sutter
Markstrom/Vladar
Huberdeau/Kadri
Treliving
Mangiapane
And more….

You realize you can’t change out all those players? You have to start somewhere and since the coach is one of the issues he’s the lone person that doesn’t need to have a trade worked out for. Get a new coach, get rid of one of the goaltenders to make room for Wolf, and decide what players on expiring deals you want to keep and move the other players. Lots of work to do but changing the coach is the easiest and can have a positive overall impact providing Treliving has learned anything about hiring coaches which is debatable but he may be gone as well.

[taxbuster]

There are SO many issues, but in the end, most DO come back to the Head Coach in some form, and for that Sutter has to take the responsibility.

Players not driving the net/being afraid: coach can bench those that don't perform, and should do so. Sutter has not (really) done that.

PowerPlay: Muller? Needs to have his head examined if he thinks that the way they play is going to be successful. Too much back-end pitch-and-catch between the D and the half boards. Too slow to develop anything. The ONLY thing successful so far is not giving Toffoli a one-timer, but allowing him to aim a shot (his one-timer is WAY too slow, but his carefully aimed shots...go in, mostly. Or ping.).

Goalkeeping: with both goalies showing bad performances, why are BOTH Sigalet AND LaBarbera still around?

PK: this, a Sutter strength, has been good. Mostly.

Confidence and determination: uh...well..occasionally? This team NEEDS a Captain. Name one (Backlund!).

Players with backs to the play: How often can the Flames handle the puck with their backs to the play? Last night it was constant. In their best games they aren't that way...but it's their fallback position. They are often turned the wrong way around. Can't get speed like that.

Lucic: this is solely on Sutter.

Youth: Sutter's refusal to play young guys...is puzzling. What's to lose? They already peed away a dozen games against crap teams...playing young guys just ain't gonna hurt.

There are lots more issues.

Stick a fork in this year.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You realize you can’t change out all those players? You have to start somewhere and since the coach is one of the issues he’s the lone person that doesn’t need to have a trade worked out for. Get a new coach, get rid of one of the goaltenders to make room for Wolf, and decide what players on expiring deals you want to keep and move the other players. Lots of work to do but changing the coach is the easiest and can have a positive overall impact providing Treliving has learned anything about hiring coaches which is debatable but he may be gone as well.

I do realize that and would lose no sleep if Sutter is gone

Just saying many others are not doing their job. If they did, Sutter would have been alright

But yeah it’s the coach to get things working and he is not doing it so it’s time for him to go.

[Erick Estrada]

Totally agreed that there’s a lot of problems from top to bottom. The coach is just the starting point.

[Flamesfan05]

Yeah if there is an award for best to worst of the year, the Flames would dominate

Markstrom, Huberdeau and Sutter would be the top 3 nominated

It’s crazy if you think about it

[Manhattanboy]

Huberdeau is the worst thing to happen to this team. A low impact player who doesn’t even break a sweat. He would get steamrolled in the playoffs. No wonder FLA wanted him gone.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Huberdeau is the worst thing to happen to this team. A low impact player who doesn’t even break a sweat. He would get steamrolled in the playoffs. No wonder FLA wanted him gone.

They will be about 30 points worse themselves this season

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Huberdeau is the worst thing to happen to this team. A low impact player who doesn’t even break a sweat. He would get steamrolled in the playoffs. No wonder FLA wanted him gone.

I can't agree with this. This storyline fans have been building up all season with Huberdeau sucks. Simple truth is , this is a square peg trying to get shoved into a round hole situation.

This isn't a James Neal situation. His game has never showed warning signs of slowing down and then all of a sudden he drops off the face of the earth?

It doesn't add up. Just doesn't.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I can't agree with this. This storyline fans have been building up all season with Huberdeau sucks. Simple truth is , this is a square peg trying to get shoved into a round hole situation.

This isn't a James Neal situation. His game has never showed warning signs of slowing down and then all of a sudden he drops off the face of the earth?

It doesn't add up. Just doesn't.

I'm not sure why people aren't understanding or looking at history with this guy as coach. He has coached 1 season with big offensive numbers.

Jarome Iginla scored 73 points with him as coach and 67 the following year when all the top offensive stars had 100 point seasons including rookies. The season after he was putting up 90 plus points.

Darryl Sutter will get his defensive metrics but offence comes to die under his watch.

[SeanCharles]

The problem is this organization refuses to build a team the right way. They have no patience and want to cheat the process.

The list of players on the team we have drafted:

Mangiapane
Backlund
Dube
Pelletier
Ruzicka
Andersson

Out of all these players only Andersson is a guy I would say is not a middle of the lineup player, either consistently or at this time.

How many championship teams have 1 top end player on their team that they drafted? Even if you want to cut them some slack and give them Lindholm because he was traded for a top drafted guy in Fox it still isn’t enough. I realize you could argue Hanifin fits in there too but I don’t see him on the same level as he hasn’t shown he can impact the game both offensively and defensively on a consistent basis and you could argue he is currently our 4th best Dman.

Over the last handful of years we have continually signed free agents to too much money and term which is setting us up to be in a tough cap situation next season.

We have brought in the following players who have significant cap hits:

Kadri
Coleman
Neal (Lucic)
Tanev
Zadorov
Markstrom

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying all of these are bad as Tanev and Zadorov are not bad contracts and before this season Markstrom was worth his salary. We have 32yo Kadri for 6 more, 31yo Coleman for 4 more, 33yo Markstrom for 3 more as ones that stick out as potential problems in the near future. Throw in soon to be 30yo’s Huberdeau and Weegar’s 8 more years and you are starting to see a trend.

We are signing a lot of players who have reached their peaks and produced, in some cases at elite levels, on other teams to big dollar and term deals.

These players are needed on teams but they are mostly guys brought in to help push teams that are close over the top. We seem to be stockpiling players of this kind and as they get older their impacts will continue to decrease while their cap hits remain the same.

I am grateful we have an ownership group that is willing to spend to the cap but I just don’t understand why they can’t see the way to build a winner is through the draft.

[Ped]

Saw this on Sportsnet this morning:

4. Impressive that Tage Thompson is on pace for 53 goals, no doubt.
Even more so when you consider his luck.
No one in the NHL has hit more posts. Thompson has pinged the iron an unlucky 13 times, 14 when you count crossbars.
The NHL’s other top ironmen reads like a list of elite shooters: Elias Pettersson (14 posts/crossbars), MacKinnon (13), McDavid (11), Kyle Connor (11), Nikita Kucherov (11), Steven Stamkos (11), and Tyler Toffoli (11).
Toffoli is living up to his NSFW nickname, as he is tied with Pettersson for most dinged crossbars (five).

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...matthew-knies/