Sutter is the problem

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

His offensive deployment is part of the problem for sure.

He's been playing the 4th line too much when we are down a goal all season, the top 9 still is a bit if a mish mash of pieces that havent meshed, and generally he hasnt made adjustments when needed.

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Dube - Kadri - Pelletier
Mangiapane- Backlund - Coleman
Ruzicka - Lewis - Duehr

How about we try that for one game even

You mean you want to see the best passer and best shooter play on the same line? No coach would do that (green text). I cannot understand why, on a team so hurting for offence/ struggling for wins, these combinations have not been even tried.

[jlh2640]

I find it funny that it’s all on Sutter now. Yet last year he was the best coach we’ve ever had and should never be let go.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

I find it funny that it’s all on Sutter now. Yet last year he was the best coach we’ve ever had and should never be let go.

It’s not ALL on Sutter. I was wrong to say Sutter is THE problem. He is not working with an elite roster, and he has no game-breakers (with Huberdeau at this level), and he has had terrible goaltending. The goaltending is still the number 1 factor. But Sutter is a negative contributing factor because he overplays older, slower players, i.e. the 4th line, and benches players like Walker Duehr. He has also been inflexible by not separating Kadri and Huberdeau. He also has the team wound too tight.

[All In Good Time]

Lots of stuff happening this year
Last year of a bad contract
New components to the core
Tough year for goaltenders
Important piece missing from the back end

We are one year removed from the coach of the year, goaltending that was a candidate for a major award and the top line in hockey

I wouldn’t be surprised if next year with largely the same personnel we challenge for the conference. That’s the weird thing to me, our tendency to be a good year/bad year type of franchise. No matter what changes we make

[hjerk]

The roster looks good on paper but is producing less than the sum of its parts. That's very clearly a player utilization/deployment issue and is on the coach.

Why Lucic isn't a permanent fixture in the press box is beyond me. The new Ritchie sucks just as much as the old one, and his obstinate refusal to sit Trevor Lewis in favor of young talent is baffling. Some nights the 4th line is playing as many minutes or more as the others, that is not how you win games in this league.

A guy with the pedigree of Sutter should be getting a lot more out of this roster. Perimeter play, low danger shots and no good breakout/zone entry plays...this team is also boring as hell to watch and it is all on the coach after 60+ games.

Sutter has to go.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

The Flames worst coach in history we've ever had is whoever our current post-honeymoon coach is at any given time.

No, the worst Flames coach in history is Gilbert. Nothing can change that.

[TheSquatch]

Sutter is a problem, for sure. Group has no confidence, and the system being played is razor-fine in terms of if anyone loses a man or makes any kind of mistake, it's unrecoverable.

But the team has to look at the slotting and just admit that yes, there's depth, but that's all there is... depth and depth and depth, and not much real talent, and no game-breaking talent at all.

It was a one line team, that line is gone, now it's ... not good. There's just too many slotting problems on the roster. Look at almost any skating position (possible exception right defense) and the team is weak there.

Overpayments for modest talent (guys like Coleman and Kadri), and a team full of modest talent (Backlund, Mangiapane, Dube down through to Lewis and whoever else.).

And if Weegar and Huberdeau were the best return for Tkachuk, and I'm sure that's true, they still haven't exactly moved the needle. Will Huby have 5 great years now? We better hope so. But at 10.5, he'll have to amaze to live up to the contract.

The team is right where it always is. Capped out and drafting mid pack.

[Major Major]

My primary concern with Sutter is that he has no accountability. I think he needs that guy that he trusts above him that can tell him when he's taking his absolutism too far. I wish BT were that guy, because I like him as a manager, but I don't think it works with Sutter as coach. Lombardi always made the most sense but I'm sure there are others.

With that said, he is objectively a great coach having an off year. The system is good and even great when executed well. That certainly hasn't happened enough this year. Yet more often than not, the players are getting into position to bury more pucks than the other team and yet it's not working out.

I also think there is so much randomness that it is possible to have bad luck seasons. They happen. Is this one? I think there's enough data out there to strongly suggest that it is. It needs to be considered when dissecting this season.

[Goriders]

The Flames don’t have any players that can will the team to victory. They are all secondary support players. That’s what I saw last night and pretty much the whole season.

Good enough to be in every game. But no one to push them over the last hurdle.

Not sold on it being the coaches fault. But for a team like this to do as poorly as they have. That’s a group effort.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, the worst Flames coach in history is Gilbert. Nothing can change that.

Glen Gulutzan was nipping at his heels I'd argue. Mainly due to strength of roster. Gulutzan screwed up the development of players, and wasted what should have been some of the best years of that Flames era.

[Ford Prefect]

Clearly what is going on with the Flames and Sutter is the Jack Adams jinx.

[Jiri Hrdina]

My nightmare is that BT leaves and Sutter is handed the full reigns again.
Or that they install a puppet GM (e.g. Conroy) but it's Sutter actually with his hands on the wheel.
Ugh.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My nightmare is that BT leaves and Sutter is handed the full reigns again.
Or that they install a puppet GM (e.g. Conroy) but it's Sutter actually with his hands on the wheel.
Ugh.

Agreed for sure, Sutter was a horrible GM

If the Flames hired a new GM,,,

I would hope the GM comes in and decides to hire a new coaching staff.

Flames really need to start fresh

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My nightmare is that BT leaves and Sutter is handed the full reigns again.
Or that they install a puppet GM (e.g. Conroy) but it's Sutter actually with his hands on the wheel.
Ugh.

It's pretty clear to me that Sutter isn't the problem but he's a problem. I no longer think he's an elite head coach at this stage of his career as this Flames team mimics his last years as Kings head coach where he just kept them competitive enough to finish just out of the playoffs while the locker room grew more tired of his dated methods. He's still a good coach but his insistence of rolling lines and stubbornness in keeping combinations together that haven't worked have hindered the team. There are simply better coaches today that are more in tune with today's NHL that aren't preoccupied with size and toughness and are more into line matching and problem solving when things aren't working rather than doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

[dammage79]

Issue when hiring a new GM may be their willingness to keep Sutter though. So there's that.

[Naitix]

I think Zary could look good with Huby next year, he plays with speed, is a creative player, and he can one time the puck better than Kadri

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's pretty clear to me that Sutter isn't the problem but he's a problem. I no longer think he's an elite head coach. He's still a good coach but his insistence of rolling lines and stubbornness in keeping combinations together that haven't worked have hindered the team. There are simply better coaches today that are more in tune with today's NHL that aren't preoccupied with size and toughness and are more into line matching and problem solving when things aren't working rather than doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

That's pretty much where I am too. And I don't know that there is a good fit between some of the players on this team and him, in terms of the style of game he wants. I keep on going back to the massive commitment this organization made to Huberdeau. If Sutter can't get him going, then do you try someone who's more suited to that player's game.

But I think he's a fine coach overall.

But as a talent evaluator and someone in charge of player personnel - yikes.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Issue when hiring a new GM may be their willingness to keep Sutter though. So there's that.

That and this has got to be one of the least desirable GM seats in the league.
BT is widely respected. If he's the one that chooses to go, that sends a terrible signal to the rest of the league and other GM candidates.

So we will end up with someone inexperienced or a re-tread who will take anything they can get.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Lots of stuff happening this year
Last year of a bad contract
New components to the core
Tough year for goaltenders
Important piece missing from the back end

We are one year removed from the coach of the year, goaltending that was a candidate for a major award and the top line in hockey

I wouldn’t be surprised if next year with largely the same personnel we challenge for the conference. That’s the weird thing to me, our tendency to be a good year/bad year type of franchise. No matter what changes we make

You sound like my investment advisor.

[Burning Beard]

Always the coach.