Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If the NDP stated they’d implement a PST, I actually wonder if that would help them get elected.

Not sure how to take this but assuming it's a serious question I would predict their seat count would go to near zero. And I'm in favor of an HST.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Muta

Every time I've told people that Notley's brand of politics is akin to the Lougheed brand of politics, a system and leader that were revered in Alberta for many years, conservatives shrink away and don't want to have that convo. They either don't want to listen or have some kind of glitch in the matrix that renders further discussion dead.

Yeah but lightbulbs or something

[Hemi-Cuda]

Yea a PST/HST is a great policy in practice, but only if you take the time to understand it. The vast majority of voters would just see "TAX INCREASE" and freak out. It would also give the UCP unlimited ammo to feed to their mouth breather base

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Not sure how to take this but assuming it's a serious question I would predict their seat count would go to near zero. And I'm in favor of an HST.

Eh, I’d bet you’d be surprised. If coupled with a campaign where we stop going to war with teachers and healthcare, and a promise to improve services therefore, you’d get buy-in. Also, all you have to say is oil and gas is boom and bust. You could even do a smaller one for the whiners. Just go like 2% or something.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If the NDP stated they’d implement a PST, I actually wonder if that would help them get elected.

No.

You promise less taxes to get elected and then institute taxes once you have a mandate.

[powderjunkie]

I see a lot of people making a concession that the "NDP weren't great, but..." in the interest of building common ground for a fruitful discussion - I used to do it all the time - but I really don't believe that anymore. I actually think the NDP were pretty amazing. Full stop.

Perfect? Of course not. A few big and small mistakes, but no different than every previous gov't in Alberta, or anywhere for that matter.

And I don't think they were amazing just because of their unique circumstances: a whole bunch of rookie MLAs that never expected to actually win the job, following 4 decades of entitled governance that had to scramble to shred so much evidence when their gravy train came to an abrupt end.

I think they were amazing because they actually did a lot of great things for Albertans that were long overdue:
- minimum wage
- modest increase to corporate tax
- introduced a modestly progressive personal income tax system
- reined in patronage appointments (which have come back with a vengeance under UCP)
- reined in corporate and union donations
- improved worker safety
- sensible and productive advocacy for O+G
- royalty review that actually improved the system in many regards, even if it cause a little short term uncertainty
- Calgary cancer centre
- Castle wilderness area protection
- general investment in health and education
- introduced an effective nutrition program for schools (feeding poorer kids)
- etc


Has any legislature since Lougheed done half this much?

[Muta]

Don’t forget the film industry credits, which the UCP shamelessly took from the NDP and rebranded as their own idea, which was disgusting.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Muta

Every time I've told people that Notley's brand of politics is akin to the Lougheed brand of politics, a system and leader that were revered in Alberta for many years, conservatives shrink away and don't want to have that convo. They either don't want to listen or have some kind of glitch in the matrix that renders further discussion dead.

I've experienced this, as well.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Muta

Don’t forget the film industry credits, which the UCP shamelessly took from the NDP and rebranded as their own idea, which was disgusting.

Don’t forget the film industry credits, which the UCP shamelessly cut, then reinstated right before an election and took from the NDP and rebranded as their own idea, which was disgusting.

FYP

[Monahammer]

Weighing in on the tax policy issue a bit, I was at the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce budget lunch yesterday. Minister Toews very proudly said: "If we were to overlay the second most tax competitive jurisdiction- Ontario by the way- if I were to overlay their tax structure over our revenue system, I would be taking in 20 billion more dollars per year."

I was definitely not the only person who looked around the room and thought, well why the #### not claim at least 10 billion of that? We can still be the most competitive without leaving all of this #### on the table. We could reinvest in ourselves!

[D as in David]

I wonder if the thought process for those who identify strongly with a particular party is that the only way they'd vote for a different one would be that they actually believed the other party was, in fact, perfect. Which, of course, the other party wouldn't be nor would their belief system allow that. Was Slave just projecting?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Weighing in on the tax policy issue a bit, I was at the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce budget lunch yesterday. Minister Toews very proudly said: "If we were to overlay the second most tax competitive jurisdiction- Ontario by the way- if I were to overlay their tax structure over our revenue system, I would be taking in 20 billion more dollars per year."

I was definitely not the only person who looked around the room and thought, well why the #### not claim at least 10 billion of that? We can still be the most competitive without leaving all of this #### on the table. We could reinvest in ourselves!

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Now that I live in Ontario the HST is no longer a shock. Sure it was a bit to adjust to at the start, but you quickly buy into it, just make judicial decisions as most normal people would, and accept that the province has a stable revenue source.

I actually feel a sense of regularity with it. As weird as that sounds.

Will I buy stuff in Alberta when I'm here? Sure, but it's not a "I must leave the province" scenario, especially since every other province has a PST as well. It's just a normal thing around the rest of the country, and the amount of people who originally come from East of Alberta have already had a PST in their lives.

I'd also probably laugh at anyone who said they moved to Alberta because the is no PST, especially when life throws so many other financial variables at you constantly.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Torture

Okay, so let's accept Slava's point and agree both parties are bad with money.
Would you rather the party that is bad with money but is seemingly trying do the right thing and cares about Alberta, or the party that is bad with money and giving it away to their closest friends and lobbyists while catering to and encouraging the grossest far right segments of society?

That said, I'd argue that the NDP of 2023 is not the NDP of 2015, they have a much stronger slate of candidates if they were to form government. Their Calgary candidates are former energy economists, lawyers, and individuals with years of experience in their field, not the shop stewards, new grads, and union heads of the past.
Frankly, they didn't have the bench strength and weren't really ready to form government in 2015, but that's what you get when another party has been in power for 40+ years. But today, if they painted themselves blue you would have a hard time telling half their candidates apart from past Progressive Conservative Governments.

If that's the case, why not actually rebrand the party as the new PC alternative? They'll always be tied to the Federal NDP in the eyes of many, which is probably one of the big reasons why it's so hard to get people to vote for them.

[btimbit]

I feel like people ignore just how much the NDP advocated for Oil and Gas as well.

And they did it without wasting untold millions on a propaganda centre

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Well that’s the end of that conversation, let’s pickup it up again in a couple weeks and repeat the exact same things!

Lol I truly hope that by May enough people in Berta see it same way as you Woob…

It's going to be tough. Last election I still felt kind of sick to my stomach in the voting booth when I voted for the NDP. I mean that was a vote against Jason EFFING MOFO Kenney!

I still can't believe I voted for the NDP in my lifetime..... and I might have to go volunteering for them next election.

Change your god damn name Rachel!!!!!!

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

If that's the case, why not actually rebrand the party as the new PC alternative? They'll always be tied to the Federal NDP in the eyes of many, which is probably one of the big reasons why it's so hard to get people to vote for them.

Yeah, I've said it before, but the exact same people named almost anything else is probably worth an extra 5+ seats. If they lose the election not re-naming will have been a factor, imo.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

If that's the case, why not actually rebrand the party as the new PC alternative? They'll always be tied to the Federal NDP in the eyes of many, which is probably one of the big reasons why it's so hard to get people to vote for them.

It makes NO sense why she doesn't! It might even attract some of the non deplorables in the UCP to come over. Mind bottling stupid.

How many more votes can she get if she tells Jagmeet and his anti-oil rhetoric to shove it!?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

It makes NO sense why she doesn't! It might even attract some of the non deplorables in the UCP to come over. Mind bottling stupid.

How many more votes can she get if she tells Jagmeet and his anti-oil rhetoric to shove it!?

I don't even think that would be necessary.

"We still believe in collective action, and in providing top quality government services in partnership with a professional, unionized civil service. We're making this change to declare that we're a party for Alberta first, and we believe in helping and supporting all the people who live, work, and play in this wonderful province. From making sure the products of our farmers, foresters and oil&gas workers make it to global markets to educating the next generation of Albertans to make their mark on the world, we will be here for Albertans. "

[Ozy_Flame]

Isn't there federal resources that come from the federal NDP? I could see why they haven't changed names yet if that's the case.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Torture

That said, I'd argue that the NDP of 2023 is not the NDP of 2015, they have a much stronger slate of candidates if they were to form government. Their Calgary candidates are former energy economists, lawyers, and individuals with years of experience in their field, not the shop stewards, new grads, and union heads of the past.
Frankly, they didn't have the bench strength and weren't really ready to form government in 2015, but that's what you get when another party has been in power for 40+ years. But today, if they painted themselves blue you would have a hard time telling half their candidates apart from past Progressive Conservative Governments.

This is the first I've heard of this. Maybe the NDP should do some advertising around the depth and background of their candidates. I already know I'm voting for them but it's possible the general populace has a belief that the party is made up solely of union leaders and far left socialists.