If the legalization of weed has taught us anything there will very much be a strong black / grey market. I really dislike the idea of making these types of drugs more accessible for people. As of right now the feds are saying these drugs will be for research and "very specific narrowly prescribed medical purposes". Kind of like weed had a few years of being a prescribed drug and some doctors loosely prescribing it before it was fully legalized.
I just wish we could hurry up and legalize mushrooms.
This talk about cocaine got me looking into some of this and there is a shop in Vancouver that sells coca leaf steeped tea and psychedelics. I guess if he has a business license, it should be okay? Coca Leaf Cafe.
I had some friends who hiked the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and said they got some coca leaves to chew on to help with the altitude sickness.
By no means do I think a safe supply is the answer but I sure feel it’s part of the solution.
I’d rather homeless folks addicted to something (because we are not talking about treating the addiction here) we can deal with. Coke sucks, Heroin sucks at least they are not made in some dudes bathtub with lord knows what. It’s far from prefect or even good but it’s a start, like I said before. It stops the cycle and allows us to treat the whys of the issues. Or even just figure out the whys.
I will be interested to see if BC’s cleaner supply changes what we see here at all.
I do very much agree fentanyl is terrible and just as prevalent as meth is sadly. As far as I understand we get most of our fentanyl through China. I believe most of it is produced there. I’m not 100% on that though. So spend more on port security in Vancouver?
Until we can start to stop the flow of dirty meth and fentanyl we are kinda stuck with what we see in Calgary now I think.
Having said that, what do we do with Family First? They are the ones selling this to the homeless population, I believe they are the largest gang in Calgary now. I feel before we can clean up the drugs on the streets we need to deal with those who profit off this trade. So how do you deal with Family First? I have no clue how to do that. I don’t think the city have any idea how to do that either.
As has been said numerous times already where do you start.
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This talk about cocaine got me looking into some of this and there is a shop in Vancouver that sells coca leaf steeped tea and psychedelics. I guess if he has a business license, it should be okay? Coca Leaf Cafe.
I had some friends who hiked the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and said they got some coca leaves to chew on to help with the altitude sickness.
Magic mushroom stores in Vancouver are pretty common. You can also order them online openly. As far as I know, they aren't legal, but the laws aren't enforced at all.
If the legalization of weed has taught us anything there will very much be a strong black / grey market. I really dislike the idea of making these types of drugs more accessible for people. As of right now the feds are saying these drugs will be for research and "very specific narrowly prescribed medical purposes". Kind of like weed had a few years of being a prescribed drug and some doctors loosely prescribing it before it was fully legalized.
The thing with opiates is that addicts are always looking for stronger hits. So if you give them a limited clean supply, they'll just use that to supplement a much stronger illegal supply.
Everyone knows how dangerous fentanyl is, bit addicts actively seek it out as they prefer the stronger effects, and don't really consider the dangers.
The thing with opiates is that addicts are always looking for stronger hits. So if you give them a limited clean supply, they'll just use that to supplement a much stronger illegal supply.
Everyone knows how dangerous fentanyl is, bit addicts actively seek it out as they prefer the stronger effects, and don't really consider the dangers.
I’ve seen addicts get up super violent from a shot of naloxone before. It’s the best high ever, it’s literally killed you. You will only ever find that high one more time or 5 or 6 more times depending on how many times people find you when you drop. It’s scary to watch people chase that high. Life or death they don’t care. I’d also argue that they flock to ctrain stations and other pretty public places to use because if they do od someone will tell someone who can help. So safe use areas again are a good start, better than a ctrain station anyhow.
You are 100% right everybody wants something that will kill them, just tone it down a little bit. Didn’t Dennis Leary do some joke along those lines?
Magic mushroom stores in Vancouver are pretty common. You can also order them online openly. As far as I know, they aren't legal, but the laws aren't enforced at all.
The Coca leaf cafe also sells DMT, lsd, etc..
Yeah, the mushroom stores are open and available, but it would still be great for them to be fully legalized.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
It ultimately comes down to the question of why don’t people do coke, heroin or meth.
For most people it’s because they haven’t tried them. These drugs aren’t pot or mushrooms. These are drugs that give people a fantastic high the first time they try it with diminishing returns over repeated use.
Last edited by Cowboy89; 03-05-2023 at 08:15 PM.
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I wonder if there will ever be such thing as amnesia treatment. In other words, treatment that causes the patient's brain to "forget" that it was ever hooked on a drug in the first place.
For most people it’s because they haven’t tried them. These drugs aren’t pot or mushrooms. These are drugs that give people a fantastic high the first time they try it with diminishing returns over repeated use.
Yeah that’s my question. Why haven’t people tried it?
I think you have a point about Cocaine being too close to being used recreationally so legalization probably broadly increases use however the harder drugs I don’t believe people aren’t doing because of lack of opportunity
It comes down if making it legal results in more people trying it then people it saves by having lower potency safer versions that in theory can be made less addictive. Like only heroin, not fentanyl.
I’ve seen addicts get up super violent from a shot of naloxone before. It’s the best high ever, it’s literally killed you. You will only ever find that high one more time or 5 or 6 more times depending on how many times people find you when you drop. It’s scary to watch people chase that high. Life or death they don’t care. I’d also argue that they flock to ctrain stations and other pretty public places to use because if they do od someone will tell someone who can help. So safe use areas again are a good start, better than a ctrain station anyhow.
?
I think you might misunderstand what happens with naloxone:
From
Take Home Naloxone FAQ for Clients - Alberta Health Services
"Naloxone only works to block the effects of opioids in the brain and cannot get a person high. For individuals who are dependent on opioids it may cause them to go into withdrawal. Naloxone has no effect on someone who has no opioids in their system."
I’ve seen addicts get up super violent from a shot of naloxone before. It’s the best high ever, it’s literally killed you. You will only ever find that high one more time or 5 or 6 more times depending on how many times people find you when you drop. It’s scary to watch people chase that high. Life or death they don’t care. I’d also argue that they flock to ctrain stations and other pretty public places to use because if they do od someone will tell someone who can help. So safe use areas again are a good start, better than a ctrain station anyhow.
?
I think you might misunderstand what happens with naloxone:
From
Take Home Naloxone FAQ for Clients - Alberta Health Services
"Naloxone only works to block the effects of opioids in the brain and cannot get a person high. For individuals who are dependent on opioids it may cause them to go into withdrawal. Naloxone has no effect on someone who has no opioids in their system."
As I understand it, the violence is because noloxone put them immediately into the agony of withdrawl.
You mean like hypnosis? Because people already quit smoking that way.
Perhaps at some point in the future when technology/medicine have advanced, something like this being used to "cure" people of addiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_erasure
I think you might misunderstand what happens with naloxone:
From
Take Home Naloxone FAQ for Clients - Alberta Health Services
"Naloxone only works to block the effects of opioids in the brain and cannot get a person high. For individuals who are dependent on opioids it may cause them to go into withdrawal. Naloxone has no effect on someone who has no opioids in their system."
As I understand it, the violence is because noloxone put them immediately into the agony of withdrawl.
Yeah, I did not communicate that well. Yes naloxone will reverse an opioid od. That high being the best high of the users life. I did not mean naloxone gave the high like it sounded. My mistake.
Yeah that’s my question. Why haven’t people tried it?
While the answer is probably as multi-faceted and complex as can be, I think there’s good evidence to support that relationships and social support.
It’s why addictions and mental health often go hand-in-hand. It’s why removing the stigma around addiction is important…if a loved one is struggling with drug use, isolating them is rarely the path to recovery. Substance abuse increased since Covid, not much mystery why.
Everyone knows the possible paths when they first partake. That’s a choice. But the emotional pain, the trauma they carry, and the real isolation and loneliness they feel leading up to that hit are not.
Why is everyone on this forum not a rampant druggie? We’ve been blessed with a combination of luck where our life is deemed better without than with. Not everyone gets to see that in their own life. But putting that drug forth symptom management rather than working in root cause is really tragic.
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Why is everyone on this forum not a rampant druggie? We’ve been blessed with a combination of luck where our life is deemed better without than with. Not everyone gets to see that in their own life.
Exactly. I saw first hand the effects that substance addiction had on people close to me, and it scared the everliving bejesus out of me. I don't even drink alcohol as a result.
Education is key to guiding people away from bad paths before they walk down them in the first place. Whatever we're doing for our kids and youth, it's not enough.
And yes, we do ultimately need to move toward a more egalitarian, compassionate society. But unfortunately there are very powerful/influential forces who prevent that from happening.
This talk about cocaine got me looking into some of this and there is a shop in Vancouver that sells coca leaf steeped tea and psychedelics. I guess if he has a business license, it should be okay? Coca Leaf Cafe.
I had some friends who hiked the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and said they got some coca leaves to chew on to help with the altitude sickness.
Yep, and a cup of coca tea in the morning and at lunch too - when I hiked it a few years ago.
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