[PGT] Flames 0 - Wild 3

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Or you know hire a younger coach that is you know in touch with their players and doesn’t have to play mind games. No one knew about Cooper or Bednar when they were hired. You don’t have to be a players coach to actually have reasonable relationships with your team. I have no idea if Mitch Love can be that person but I’d give him a shot. He’s done really well for the Wranglers.

Wasn't that the description for both those guys before they were hired?

[PepsiFree]

I’d be fine with Mitch Love but I think it’s a bit silly not to acknowledge that Gully was absolutely meant to be a Cooper/Bednar type of find. If finding those guys was easy everyone would find them, but for every one of them there are four to five that end up like Gulutzan and Eakins.

[Paulie Walnuts]

No one suggested Ward or Ole Gully haven't seen a single person say that but hey let's keep up the negativity Sutter wouldn't want it any other way.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’d be fine with Mitch Love but I think it’s a bit silly not to acknowledge that Gully was absolutely meant to be a Cooper/Bednar type of find. If finding those guys was easy everyone would find them, but for every one of them there are four to five that end up like Gulutzan and Eakins.

Difference being that Cooper and Bednar never coached in the NHL. Gully was a head coach and terrible at it and assistant under another Sutter type with Torts. Gully was a terrible hire and one the worst mistakes Brad made with no real plan at the time it felt like.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

No one suggested Ward or Ole Gully haven't seen a single person say that but hey let's keep up the negativity Sutter wouldn't want it any other way.

Coming from the bastion of positivity himself Paulie Walnuts.

Of course they didn't say bring Ward or Gully back but I'm sure you get my point. We are more likely to get a Gully or Ward than we are Bednar or Cooper, whom I would say are probably at least a bit a product of the stacked teams they lead.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Difference being that Cooper and Bednar never coached in the NHL. Gully was a head coach and terrible at it and assistant under another Sutter type with Torts. Gully was a terrible hire and one the worst mistakes Brad made with no real plan at the time it felt like.

Not as terrible as Bednar was in his first season, even first two seasons averaged out. Dallas was also worse before they hired Gulutzan and worse after they fired him, so I’m not sure where the argument that he was terrible there comes from.

Didn’t like him as the Flames’ head coach, but feels like revisionist history just to make the point that you can predict how young coaching are going to perform, which we already know isn’t true.

[TheChief]

I see plenty of paper thin arguments when it comes to this Sutter hatred. These guys need to feel the heat when they arnt performing. They are millionaires playing a kids game for gods sakes and their money is guaranteed. Fall in line or get out I say, this is a TEAM game.

[kyuss275]

Tell Jon cooper he has done all he can do in Tampa. Give him boatloads of money and tell him if you want a real challenge, come to Calgary. If he gets this team to a Stanley cup it will cement his legacy in the hockey hall of fame. Lol

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by TheChief

I see plenty of paper thin arguments when it comes to this Sutter hatred. These guys need to feel the heat when they arnt performing. They are millionaires playing a kids game for gods sakes and their money is guaranteed. Fall in line or get out I say, this is a TEAM game.

I don’t care if Sutter is hard on his players. What I care about his his game time management and stubbornness. Rolling 4 lines equally when down a goal. Not caring that the 4th line is out on ice against other teams top lines. Too stubborn to change lines when it’s not working. Not a fan of his man to man D either. It doesn’t seem to work for this group.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I don’t care if Sutter is hard on his players. What I care about his his game time management and stubbornness. Rolling 4 lines equally when down a goal. Not caring that the 4th line is out on ice against other teams top lines. Too stubborn to change lines when it’s not working. Not a fan of his man to man D either. It doesn’t seem to work for this group.

What you see Sutter doing/not doing on the ice will not change. He is what he is and seems to be stubborn to the point of stupidity. If he is around the Flames in any form you will continue to see his influence and unshaking belief in how the game should be played....I don't really care whom is Head Coach or GM as long as it's not Sutter.

[Major Major]

Yes in the 60 percent of seasons Sutter is not coaching in the SCF or winning the Jack Adams, he looks like a real dufus I tell ya.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not as terrible as Bednar was in his first season, even first two seasons averaged out. Dallas was also worse before they hired Gulutzan and worse after they fired him, so I’m not sure where the argument that he was terrible there comes from.

Didn’t like him as the Flames’ head coach, but feels like revisionist history just to make the point that you can predict how young coaching are going to perform, which we already know isn’t true.

Bednar first season he took over in August when Roy abruptly quit. His second season was 95 points.

Gully made the playoffs because it a 10 game win streak with a bunch of medicore play in between.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The idea that Mangiapane hasn't been good is way over cooked.

His on ice stuff is pretty much equal to last season if not a bit better (expected and actual).

His individual shooting percentage is down but with the other metrics it's hard to argue that he's contributing to a productive line.

So Mang has 13 goals to date vs his 35 last year, and his on ice stuff is pretty much equal

Huberdeau has 40 points so far vs his 115 last year. Does that make his on ice stuff pretty much equal too?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Yes in the 60 percent of seasons Sutter is not coaching in the SCF or winning the Jack Adams, he looks like a real dufus I tell ya.

It's been 9 years since Sutter has had any meaningful post season success. That's five seasons, and looking like it's about to be a six, and for part of that time, he was retired.

It's not too much of a stretch to admit the possibility that the game and the players aren't the same.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Ped

It's been 9 years since Sutter has had any meaningful post season success. That's five seasons, and looking like it's about to be a six, and for part of that time, he was retired.

It's not too much of a stretch to admit the possibility that the game and the players aren't the same.

I would argue that, though he has core beliefs on the game, his evident obsession with hockey drives him to be in tune with the game as it changes moreso than... Idk, anyone? Many coaches go on the road with their AHL team during the all Star break?

[GUnit]

This is becoming Brent Sutter v2

I can't believe I'm saying this but glue gun hockey is better

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Fire Sutter tonight.

Finally changes the lines and he leaves Huberdeau and Kadri together and splits Pelletier and Huberdeau.

He is either insane or stupid. Doesn't matter which, he needs to be removed now.

Don't leave out the possibility that he's just an a$$hole.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I would argue that, though he has core beliefs on the game, his evident obsession with hockey drives him to be in tune with the game as it changes moreso than... Idk, anyone? Many coaches go on the road with their AHL team during the all Star break?

Sutter has been effective at modifying his system over time. However, the fundamental Sutter system with big bodies at all positions, heavy forecheck, man-to-man defense, playing along the boards, etc. only works if you have a big team that can play that way if asked to (e.g. Lightning or Jets). The current iteration of the Flames is a averaged-sized team in all aspects, and a very small team compared to the cup-winning Kings teams.

Sutter might still be a good coach, but he's really failed at adapting his system for the team that he has.

If we look at the Flames D, the 2022-23 d corps is full of highly mobile and/or high IQ players in Andersson, Weegar, Hanfin, Tanev, and now Stecher. Yet, why is Sutter asking his "small-ish", mobile defense to play a conservative, man-to-man, and defense-first style? Weegar is a great example of this sub-optimal coaching. He was a two-way force in Florida (7th in Norris voting in 2020-21 and 14th last year), constantly rushing the puck, pinching, and making smart plays all over the ice. Why isn't he doing that now?

It's the same story on offense. Tell me if this is an offense that should be ranked 22 in GF:

• Premier playmaker averaging 92pt per 82 games over the past five seasons
• Selke candidate averaging 74pt per 82 games over the past four seasons
• Two-way forward averaging 21g per 82 games over the past four seasons
• Offensive forward averaging 28g per 82 games over the past four seasons
• Two-way forward with Selke-caliber defense averaging 48p per 82 games for the past eight seasons
• Offensive forward averaging 30g per 82 games over the past three seasons
• Offensive forward averaging 25g and 35a per 82 games for the past decade
• Some talented young-guns with potential in Dube, Ruzicka, and Pelletier

People can blame chemistry or players not being elite enough, but its should be obvious that there is still skill on the Flames. These players didn't suddenly forget how to score overnight after doing it for years in the NHL.

I think it's fair to put most of the blame on the man at the helm who refuses to mix-up the lines, under-utilizes his most offensively skilled players, and won't change-up the system to embrace the more wide-open NHL game of 2022-23

At this point in time with 2-3 more seasons before retirement, how motivated is Sutter to re-learn the game and tweak his style like he did in the past? If the goal is to win now, Sutter needs to go back to the farm and be replaced with someone that embraces the modern game

[Southside403]

During a calgary game vs avalanche nate tantrum with coach
https://youtu.be/XNrO80gTEHM

[memphusk]

The desire to be better and win. Mackinnon doesn't hang his head. He gets pissed off and gets after it. He's a winner.