Ownership and Management Perspective

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Flames fans get the franchise they deserve.

We'll "wait and see" into oblivion. We give relieved high marks for a meaningless depth trade. We will bend over backwards to absolve the braintrust that constructed the team and mismanaged its assets. And we'll keep buying tickets and like it.

I'm used to it by now. About 32 years of this crap. It's a disease that appears to infect all Canadian franchises to some degree. Just wish it weren't so. Wish this moldy mold could once and for all be broken.

I swear some of you treat this like a paint by numbers painting that the owners/management refuse to swallow.

You have the vision and they don't get it.

It's tough to win in a 32 team league. You do the best you can. Sometimes you have the wrong people in place, sometimes you do.

But it's always a tough tough road.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

You’d hope. Tre has generally done well in trades yes.

With Friedman’s latest to suggest that the flames had no real interest in moving Backlund/Lindholm, and are instead looking at extending them this summer, I have big reservations about their direction right now.

Friedman doesn't have a clue what they're thinking.

He hasn't all month.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

I swear some of you are just happy being mediocre.

You know the difficulties and we don't get it.

[JohnnyB]

The Flames really don't have players that I care much about anymore. They had a chance in the first 25 games or so for the new guys to make me into a fan of them, and Kadri started off making me really like him, but they just didn't do it overall. Markstrom didn't redeem himself from crapping the bed in the playoffs, Huberdeau was a massive frustrating flop, Kadri showed sparks but then faded, and other guys were fine, but fine isn't what makes you want to watch a bunch of guys play hockey for a few hours of your evening on a regular basis. They couldn't even compete with Netflix this season, let alone have a chance of competing with the best of the league.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

I swear some of you are just happy being mediocre.

You know the difficulties and we don't get it.

The problem is it is not our choice to make, ownership or management made the decision last summer to go against a rebuild to win now. It has not come together this season, but what are we supposed to do? Get pitchforks out and take BT captive? They are gonna retool in the summer, do some reshuffling with hopefully some more youth in the lineup. I get the frustration tho but unless a dramatic shift in the way this org does things, the Flames will be spending the next 3-4 years trying to contend. Gotta come to terms with that or you will be miserable every time you turn on a game and that is no fun

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

The Flames really don't have players that I care much about anymore. They had a chance in the first 25 games or so for the new guys to make me into a fan of them, and Kadri started off making me really like him, but they just didn't do it overall. Markstrom didn't redeem himself from crapping the bed in the playoffs, Huberdeau was a massive frustrating flop, Kadri showed sparks but then faded, and other guys were fine, but fine isn't what makes you want to watch a bunch of guys play hockey for a few hours of your evening on a regular basis. They couldn't even compete with Netflix this season, let alone have a chance of competing with the best of the league.

Feels really different, for sure. Hopefully with time some stuff will gel. But we're so used to the Gaudreau, Monahan, Giordano/Brodie, Backlund Flames, these were the faces, and of that group, it's just Backlund now. Total d-core swap in the last few years. Andersson is maybe the most likeable in terms of personality and intensity.

But yeah, it's not an exciting brand of hockey right now, and just an assemblage of players at this point, not "the team". Hopefully next year feels more natural.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I swear some of you treat this like a paint by numbers painting that the owners/management refuse to swallow.

You have the vision and they don't get it.

It's tough to win in a 32 team league. You do the best you can. Sometimes you have the wrong people in place, sometimes you do.

But it's always a tough tough road.

Yeah, it's a tough job. Guess we can just wash our hands of three decades of failure because 31 other franchises aren't going to win the prize this year either.

In this league you better have a vision, even a wrong one, because playing it safe and leaning into mediocrity hasn't won a single Cup.

This is precisely what plagues Canadian franchises. a bunch of undesirable locations, yet not one management group willing to do what is necessary to compete when the prime free agents go elsewhere. How sad is it that the Leafs are the closest thing to a competently managed Canadian franchise? And even then their window is about to slam shut.

What is this management team's vision? Aside from being devoid of one? Every move more myopic than the last.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sometimes you have the wrong people in place, sometimes you do.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[TheSquatch]

If the best talent won't come or won't stay, ... it's maybe less about vision and more about day to day realities.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

The Flames really don't have players that I care much about anymore. They had a chance in the first 25 games or so for the new guys to make me into a fan of them, and Kadri started off making me really like him, but they just didn't do it overall. Markstrom didn't redeem himself from crapping the bed in the playoffs, Huberdeau was a massive frustrating flop, Kadri showed sparks but then faded, and other guys were fine, but fine isn't what makes you want to watch a bunch of guys play hockey for a few hours of your evening on a regular basis. They couldn't even compete with Netflix this season, let alone have a chance of competing with the best of the league.

I like a lot of those guys. I like Rasmus, Backlund, Tanev, Zadorov, Pelletier, Huberdeau, Dube, Mangiapane - they have personality and/or fight hard for their team. I like the professionalism of Lewis, Coleman, Hanifin. I like how Markstrom and Vladar are teammates for each other.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The problem is it is not our choice to make, ownership or management made the decision last summer to go against a rebuild to win now. It has not come together this season, but what are we supposed to do? Get pitchforks out and take BT captive? They are gonna retool in the summer, do some reshuffling with hopefully some more youth in the lineup. I get the frustration tho but unless a dramatic shift in the way this org does things, the Flames will be spending the next 3-4 years trying to contend. Gotta come to terms with that or you will be miserable every time you turn on a game and that is no fun

The fanbase could hold them accountable for a shoddy product. Vote with their dollars. But let's be real, it won't happen. As such, what reason is there for the organization to make a dramatic shift?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Yeah, it's a tough job. Guess we can just wash our hands of three decades of failure because 31 other franchises aren't going to win the prize this year either.

In this league you better have a vision, even a wrong one, because playing it safe and leaning into mediocrity hasn't won a single Cup.

This is precisely what plagues Canadian franchises. a bunch of undesirable locations, yet not one management group willing to do what is necessary to compete when the prime free agents go elsewhere. How sad is it that the Leafs are the closest thing to a competently managed Canadian franchise? And even then their window is about to slam shut.

What is this management team's vision? Aside from being devoid of one? Every move more myopic than the last.



Couldn't have said it better myself.

There was a more concrete vision until Tkachuk and Johnny bolted and Monahan’s body broke down. You can argue the trade last summer lacked vision but at the time it looked pretty good. Flames did rebuild, and the two top players that every other team in the league would try and keep left. Flames still had a good group left that had holes and made a trade that they thought could put them back in contention. It sucks it is not working but imma push back on your assertion that this team did not have a vision. Last offseason was pretty unprecedented, it’s hard to blame management for giving this group another chance to compete then to rebuild.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The fanbase could hold them accountable for a shoddy product. Vote with their dollars. But let's be real, it won't happen. As such, what reason is there for the organization to make a dramatic shift?

So the fans have to like the team so much that they are willing to step up, ‘vote with their dollars’ and actually stop supporting them

This thread hurts my head

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

If the best talent won't come or won't stay, ... it's maybe less about vision and more about day to day realities.

Or rip a page out of the Tampa Bay Rays' playbook?

A franchise in a market like Calgary better have the best scouting and development team in the league. Instead we get guys like Steve Pleau.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by Beninho

There was a more concrete vision until Tkachuk and Johnny bolted and Monahan’s body broke down. You can argue the trade last summer lacked vision but at the time it looked pretty good. Flames did rebuild, and the two top players that every other team in the league would try and keep left. Flames still had a good group left that had holes and made a trade that they thought could put them back in contention. It sucks it is not working but imma push back on your assertion that this team did not have a vision. Last offseason was pretty unprecedented, it’s hard to blame management for giving this group another chance to compete then to rebuild.

Yeah, you can imagine a vision at one point was that we had a top line with Bennett and Gaudreau and Tkachuk, a second line anchored by Monahan, with I guess Dube, Mangiapane, Lindholm as wingers...., and Backlund would be a great 3rd line center. For all kinds of reasons, stuff just didn't go that way.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Beninho

There was a more concrete vision until Tkachuk and Johnny bolted and Monahan’s body broke down. You can argue the trade last summer lacked vision but at the time it looked pretty good. Flames did rebuild, and the two top players that every other team in the league would try and keep left. Flames still had a good group left that had holes and made a trade that they thought could put them back in contention. It sucks it is not working but imma push back on your assertion that this team did not have a vision. Last offseason was pretty unprecedented, it’s hard to blame management for giving this group another chance to compete then to rebuild.

I would argue that the trade had vision. Some posters just don’t agree with that vision and call it no vision (because I guess no other vision exists but their own).

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The fanbase could hold them accountable for a shoddy product. Vote with their dollars. But let's be real, it won't happen. As such, what reason is there for the organization to make a dramatic shift?

That is kind of my point tho. The org will only do what is instructed from top down. It’s a Canadian market, seats will be filled and jerseys sold regardless. Nothing else us simpletons can do. I say that as a fan of several other unlucky/bad sports organizations. Nothing fans can do to pressure the team to go into a rebuild. Look at Vancouver.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Or rip a page out of the Tampa Bay Rays' playbook?

A franchise in a market like Calgary better have the best scouting and development team in the league. Instead we get guys like Steve Pleau.

The moneyball quote “if we play like the Yankees in here, we’ll lose to the Yankees out there” comes to mind.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So the fans have to like the team so much that they are willing to step up, ‘vote with their dollars’ and actually stop supporting them

This thread hurts my head

You like this team? I mean I've been a Flames fan going back further than most around here. But do I like this group? No, not really.

But you tell me. How does the fanbase make the organization change their ways? By shoving more money into their pockets? Something tells me that isn't going to work.

[DeluxeMoustache]

If you are resourceful enough, you can always find a way to get your message across, and teach those owners a lesson

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Yeah, you can imagine a vision at one point was that we had a top line with Bennett and Gaudreau and Tkachuk, a second line anchored by Monahan, with I guess Dube, Mangiapane, Lindholm as wingers...., and Backlund would be a great 3rd line center. For all kinds of reasons, stuff just didn't go that way.

Exactly, in 2017 this vision was very exciting and it sucks it never created a long playoff run. We are now in the timeline of the fallout of that vision not working. One pivot was made with the trade last summer, I imagine this offseason won’t see many changes and lots of fans will get upset, but this may be a 2-3 year window where the org has to make multiple pivots. Its best to accept that and just roll with what happens.