[PGT] Flames lose 2-1 to Toronto

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by browna

So goaltending started to suck becuase he called out Huberdeau? At the end of October?

Average goaltending has this team comfortably in the playoffs and you know it; the way the skaters have bought into his system (not right away but certainly after December) and controlled possession and play vs their opponents for the majority of games.

We all get that goaltending has been terrible but to me it doesn't overshadow the fact that Sutter has not had a great season himself.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No offense but you are a big Sutter fan. I wouldn't expect you post anything different. It's been a bad season from him. The Flames had one of their best starts to a season in years at 5-1 and his response was to go all grumpy pants, call out Huberdeau and change all the lines and they go out and lose the next seven games. I can't remember any head coach getting in his own way and faceplanting that bad with poor decision making. I don't know if this team ever really got its footing back after that.

Everyone (you included) just keeps repeating their schtick on both sides of this argument.

If you're going to do the no offence elimination of his views we can probably strike you too, no?

[SuperMatt18]

The stuff with Sutter that kills us is stuff like last night.

4th line on the ice against their top line way too frequently - which should not happen on home ice.

Led directly to one goal against last night and shifted momentum.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Even if it was that's not "awful". From what I remember very few people were complaining about him and were worried when he got injured. It was when he came back that the complaining started.

Also, take save percentage with a grain of salt. It doesn't always tell the whole story.

Hard to have the 28th best save percentage and be considered a great goalie. Even if it does not tell the entire story, can’t really remember any goalie who had 27 goalies better than them in that category who is considered great.

He is 45th this year, nobody thinks he is good.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

So wait. Apparently Markstrom had a good game? And yet still the second best goalie on the ice. Hallelujah.

I'm no Markstrom defender as a whole, but this take is incorrect. Just because he let in one more goal doesn't mean he was the second best goalie. He was definitely the best goalie on the ice, as TO had far more grade-A scoring chances, and Markstrom made some big saves.

On the season as a whole, he was the second best goalie on the ice far too many times, but not last night.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Hard to have the 28th best save percentage and be considered a great goalie. Even if it does not tell the entire story, can’t really remember any goalie who had 27 goalies better than them in that category who is considered great.

He is 45th this year, nobody thinks he is good.

I'm not seeing that at all.

I have his last healthy game that season on Feb 15th (game 13 for his season). They played the Canucks at the Dome on Feb 17th and he came out of his net and got the concussion.

Through the 13 game he had a .924 save percentage to start the season and doubt very much he was ranked 28th with those numbers since Varlamov finished the season 1st at .929

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Everyone (you included) just keeps repeating their schtick on both sides of this argument.

If you're going to do the no offence elimination of his views we can probably strike you too, no?

You can do whatever you want Bingo. I'm only repeating facts like how he changed the lines after a good start leading to a long losing streak, bizarre media interactions, poor handling of goaltenders, etc. If you object with my reasoning feel free to tell me why Sutter has not had a bad season....or strike me too.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not seeing that at all.

I have his last healthy game that season on Feb 15th (game 13 for his season). They played the Canucks at the Dome on Feb 17th and he came out of his net and got the concussion.

Through the 13 game he had a .924 save percentage to start the season and doubt very much he was ranked 28th with those numbers since Varlamov finished the season 1st at .929

Game 13 was on Feb 15, he also played Feb 17 and Feb 20, it was after Feb 20 that he was shut down. I guess if we are saying we can’t count the two games after Feb 15 that he played in then ok. But in all the games he played before he did not play games because of injury he had a .909

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/flames-...-leafs/sn-amp/

In his most recent game, Markstrom struggled, allowing five goals on 15 shots in what became a 7-1 loss to the Edmonton Oilers.

On the year, the Flames goalie has posted an 8-6-1 record, with a 2.87 goals-against average and a .909 save percentage.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

He is 45th this year, nobody thinks he is good.

Because he's not having a good season. Everyone and their dog knows that.

The Covid year the team was an adventure all season. Having a dud coach that should have never been extended had a lot to do with that. Their record would have been a lot worse if not for him and like I said very few people were complaining about him. His last two games before going on IR weren't pretty but he was already hurt halfway through the Canucks game and played the Oilers game hurt.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Hard to have the 28th best save percentage and be considered a great goalie. Even if it does not tell the entire story, can’t really remember any goalie who had 27 goalies better than them in that category who is considered great.

He is 45th this year, nobody thinks he is good.

The splits that year were really injury impacted I think.

He was great to start the year, kept the team in a lot of games to start that season.

First 12 Games: .925 Save Percentage. (Start of Season to Feb 14)

Then around the injury he was bad, he really struggled after his concussion - similar to this years numbers:

14 GP: 0.877 save percentage (Feb 15 to April 1st)

Then he was pretty average to close the season:

17 GP - .909 save percentage (April 1 to end of season)

[TheIronMaiden]

In big games big players make a big difference. Bad look for Mr. 10.5 Million.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You can do whatever you want Bingo. I'm only repeating facts like how he changed the lines after a good start leading to a long losing streak, bizarre media interactions, poor handling of goaltenders, etc. If you object with my reasoning feel free to tell me why Sutter has not had a bad season....or strike me too.

I'm not debating that.

But you essentially shushed someone because they are a Sutter fan. I'm just stating if that's the case there are probably some Sutter detractors that should be shushed too, no?

I'm on the fence to be honest.

I get sick of the PR act.
I like controlling the play.
I worry that high shot volume takes away from quality.
I think his act can wear out.
I don't think he's as old school as some feel.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Game 13 was on Feb 15, he also played Feb 17 and Feb 20, it was after Feb 20 that he was shut down. I guess if we are saying we can’t count the two games after Feb 15 that he played in then ok. But in all the games he played before he did not play games because of injury he had a .909

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/flames-...-leafs/sn-amp/

Pretty well established that he got hurt coming out of his net against the Canucks on the 17th isn't it?

There are no rules ... I'm not telling you what you have to count.

Personally I'd go to the last game before he got hurt when establishing how a player played before an injury. But if you want to include a game and a half with a concussion your call!

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Best game of the season by Markstrom.

PP is still a piece of kyit. Muller needs to be fired. Hot effing garbage.

Was at the game last night, and thinking about this as the powerplay struggled.

Why was it so good last year? Well yea Tkachuk and Johnny were there. But it's also about the deployment of the trigger men in the right spots.

Lindholm used to set up in the right half circle for shots, and JG was left circle as distributor. Tkachuck in front of net for tips, bumper player was whoever, with Rasmus up top.

Toffoli has taken up the trigger position from Lindholm on the right circle, with Lindy going to the front of the net to tip. That's asinine. Toffoli is not that player he's a second/third line winger when slotted right.

Our setup should be:

Kadri = Bumper; trigger man
Lindholm = Right circle; trigger man
Huberdeau = Left circle; distributor
Rasmus = Top; distributor
Whoever = net front for tips and puck recovery.

When was the last time you saw Lindholm do that quick catch and release shot on the powerplay? That's what we are missing this year.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Was at the game last night, and thinking about this as the powerplay struggled.

Why was it so good last year? Well yea Tkachuk and Johnny were there. But it's also about the deployment of the trigger men in the right spots.

Lindholm used to set up in the right half circle for shots, and JG was left circle as distributor. Tkachuck in front of net for tips, bumper player was whoever, with Rasmus up top.

Toffoli has taken up the trigger position from Lindholm on the right circle, with Lindy going to the front of the net to tip. That's asinine. Toffoli is not that player he's a second/third line winger when slotted right.

Our setup should be:

Kadri = Bumper; trigger man
Lindholm = Right circle; trigger man
Huberdeau = Left circle; distributor
Rasmus = Top; distributor
Whoever = net front for tips and puck recovery.

When was the last time you saw Lindholm do that quick catch and release shot on the powerplay? That's what we are missing this year.

For the life of me, I can't understand how this is not a core part of our powerplay. It's not like we don't have a world-class distributor to get him the puck.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Was at the game last night, and thinking about this as the powerplay struggled.

Why was it so good last year? Well yea Tkachuk and Johnny were there. But it's also about the deployment of the trigger men in the right spots.

Lindholm used to set up in the right half circle for shots, and JG was left circle as distributor. Tkachuck in front of net for tips, bumper player was whoever, with Rasmus up top.

Toffoli has taken up the trigger position from Lindholm on the right circle, with Lindy going to the front of the net to tip. That's asinine. Toffoli is not that player he's a second/third line winger when slotted right.

Our setup should be:

Kadri = Bumper; trigger man
Lindholm = Right circle; trigger man
Huberdeau = Left circle; distributor
Rasmus = Top; distributor
Whoever = net front for tips and puck recovery.

When was the last time you saw Lindholm do that quick catch and release shot on the powerplay? That's what we are missing this year.

Someone said that Huberdeau and Lindholm have almost been elimated from the powerplay and it's true. They get way less touches than they need. The powerplay should flow through Huberdeau with an aim at getting the puck to multiple shooters, especially Toffoli and Lindholm.

A lot of Lindy's one timers came from passes starting from below the red line - behind the net or nearby. No one is really playing that passs this year. Huberdeau needs to be sometimes going deep on one wing, probably right, and floating between there and the circle for passes.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

For the life of me, I can't understand how this is not a core part of our powerplay. It's not like we don't have a world-class distributor to get him the puck.

You have to have establish credible threats elsewhere on the PP in order to make the bumper guy dangerous, otherwise there’s always going to be a guy or a stick in the way.

Lindholm last year was pretty dangerous on the PP regardless if he was on the flank or in the slot. Gaudreau would either find him open with a cross seam pass or Tkachuk would one touch it to him in the slot.

But I don’t think this team has the personnel to make it happen. Why is the Oiler’s PP so good? Because of McDavid and Draisaitl. They just traded away their PP1 quarterback and their PP didn’t skip a beat. The Flames do not have these types of players who can create the same kind of deception, or draw defenders to one side, or make the quick decisions needed to force the opposition out of their structure.

All these things like the powerplay, 3 on 3 overtime, odd man rushes and etc, the Flames suck at all these things because of their lack of game breaking talent and skill. They have the same set up and strategies as every other team, they just simply cannot execute at the same level.

[McG]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Man, that place was lousy with Leafs fans last night. It was surprising to me how much blue there was in the arena.

Thanked for the new plural reference for opposing fans.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

In big games big players make a big difference. Bad look for Mr. 10.5 Million.

Did Huberdeau make a difference in ONE game this year, big or little?

Maybe the win against the Rangers? Any others?

Biggest disappointment of all time.

[TheIronMaiden]

Huderdeau is all hat no cattle.