2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/sto...llow-rules-gms

Nothing we haven't heard before - But a few interesting examples :

The handling of Philips didn't do any good for the Sutter stereotypes.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Anyone who’d like a shot at beating those teams.

Pittsburgh, for one - I imagine they’d pay a fortune to get Lindholm and Hanifin for two runs for less than $5M.

Lindholm with the right usage and more cerebral wingers would be a massively helpful player for a team that wants to win

Hanifin with a responsible partner would be excellent too (Ras isn't really that - too similar)

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The handling of Philips didn't do any good for the Sutter stereotypes.

Phillips doesn’t skate well enough to be an impact offensive player in the NHL. You have to skate like Gaudreau to stick in the NHL at that size. That or be Tyler Ennis thick.

Phillips can’t skate like Gaudreau. If he could, he’d have been here three years ago. That’s not Darryl’s problem.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Phillips doesn’t skate well enough to be an impact offensive player in the NHL. You have to skate like Gaudreau to stick in the NHL at that size. That or be Tyler Ennis thick.

Phillips can’t skate like Gaudreau. If he could, he’d have been here three years ago. That’s not Darryl’s problem.

He pretty much said it's size that's holding him back and took a shot at his size when discussing something else.

[Harry Lime]

The way that Phillips plays, you would think that his problem would be injuries, because he doesn't shy away from a play the way that some smaller players do. In terms of defensive play, I'd say that he is average at best, but not a liability, which his offensive instincts more than make up for.

This is the only player that makes me feel as though the Darryl bias is a real thing, because I don't see the limitation.

[Sandman]

Darryl once called Johnny, "our best checker", and in many ways he was right. JG was so good at those little stick lifts, and picking guys' pockets on the fly. I think that the one quality that kept JG going was his "slippery-ness"- his edges and agility are some of the best I've ever seen, and it prevents opponents from catching him clean, or stealing the puck off of him. Well, that and the fact he had skill and IQ out of this world- I don't think it's fair to compare Phillips to him at all. If Johnny were in the AHL at the same age as Phillips is now, he would probably have over 2 points per game.

Seeing the difference between 5'9" Pelletier in the NHL, and 5'7" Phillips shows me why there is negative bias towards MP- he's closer to Czarnik than he is to Gaudreau.

[bigrangy]

Nobody is disappointed that Phillips hasn’t seen much NHL time because they think he’s the next Gaudreau. People are disappointed because they’ve had to watch Lucic/Lewis plug it up all year.

Is Phillips worse than Duehr? Mitch Love doesn’t think so, or Duehr would be playing the big minutes for the Wranglers. However, Duehr has fit in just fine on the big team and is fun to watch. So we have a player who plays the same position as Duehr, who is better than him, with a longer track record of success, but he’s stuck in the minors pretty much entirely because he’s half a foot shorter than the coach would like. Not because he’s worse at hockey.

The expectation for any AHL callup is just “don’t be the worst guy on the team”. As long as you’re not the worst, someone else should be in the pressbox instead of you. Duehr seems to be accomplishing this.

Now I know that there are differences when it comes to depth guys, a guy that is a PP ace in the AHL probably won’t get the PP time to stay effective in the NHL. I haven’t watched enough Wranglers games to know if Phillips is still effective at even strength.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Darryl once called Johnny, "our best checker", and in many ways he was right. JG was so good at those little stick lifts, and picking guys' pockets on the fly. I think that the one quality that kept JG going was his "slippery-ness"- his edges and agility are some of the best I've ever seen, and it prevents opponents from catching him clean, or stealing the puck off of him. Well, that and the fact he had skill and IQ out of this world- I don't think it's fair to compare Phillips to him at all. If Johnny were in the AHL at the same age as Phillips is now, he would probably have over 2 points per game.

Seeing the difference between 5'9" Pelletier in the NHL, and 5'7" Phillips shows me why there is negative bias towards MP- he's closer to Czarnik than he is to Gaudreau.

Could not disagree more. Phillips needed a little more icetime and time with higher skilled players. He would have been fine in the NHL if he wasn’t playing 6 minutes a night with Lewis and Ritchie.

The difference between the farm and NHL these days has narrowed significantly. It isn’t Darryl’s NHL where there was a wider gap between the AHL and NHL. The NHL these days is driven younger with the salary cap and kids are emerging as high impact players earlier in their career. Also, they are far more motivated than floating vets on guaranteed contracts. There’s a stark difference between a person trying to work for millions of dollars and a person who already has made millions of dollars.

If Phillips had Pelletier’s opportunity I don’t think you’d see much differentiation in production or performance. Pelletier has more icetime, better line mates and more opportunity and the real difference comes down to coaches preferences.

To me, the real disappointment of Sutter this year is his abandonment of the merit system. It’s the only way to motivate players. Many on this site don’t view effort as a major issue with this current group but I think it is. So many times you’ll see many vets mail it in, and the reality is that they’ve all made their big contracts. Young guys need way more chances. Then when they stumble sit them and rotate in the vets, who have pride on the line and will be eager to prove doubters wrong. Gifting vets icetime because they “won cups” and “are champions” or some other non-understandable nonsense flies in the face of human psychology and common sense. Yeah, the kid who wants millions will work harder than the kid who has it, when the true nominal difference in their speed and skill amounts to 0.00000001%, the effort is the differentiator.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Could not disagree more. Phillips needed a little more icetime and time with higher skilled players. He would have been fine in the NHL if he wasn’t playing 6 minutes a night with Lewis and Ritchie.

The difference between the farm and NHL these days has narrowed significantly. It isn’t Darryl’s NHL where there was a wider gap between the AHL and NHL. The NHL these days is driven younger with the salary cap and kids are emerging as high impact players earlier in their career. Also, they are far more motivated than floating vets on guaranteed contracts. There’s a stark difference between a person trying to work for millions of dollars and a person who already has made millions of dollars.

If Phillips had Pelletier’s opportunity I don’t think you’d see much differentiation in production or performance. Pelletier has more icetime, better line mates and more opportunity and the real difference comes down to coaches preferences.

To me, the real disappointment of Sutter this year is his abandonment of the merit system. It’s the only way to motivate players. Many on this site don’t view effort as a major issue with this current group but I think it is. So many times you’ll see many vets mail it in, and the reality is that they’ve all made their big contracts. Young guys need way more chances. Then when they stumble sit them and rotate in the vets, who have pride on the line and will be eager to prove doubters wrong. Gifting vets icetime because they “won cups” and “are champions” or some other non-understandable nonsense flies in the face of human psychology and common sense. Yeah, the kid who wants millions will work harder than the kid who has it, when the true nominal difference in their speed and skill amounts to 0.00000001%, the effort is the differentiator.

Disagree, Pelletier got the ice time he did because he plays a different game than Phillips. Phillips had to be generating offence to be effective and he mainly got out muscled. He is too small to be an effective NHLer and I bet he won’t be a regular on the next team he signs for.

[dino7c]

Yeah make fun of Lewis and Lucic all you want...Phillips won't even come close to their careers IMO

I doubt the guy is a full time NHLer ever

[Mr.Coffee]

Well none of that is what I said at all, but okay. Making stuff up is cool too.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Nobody is disappointed that Phillips hasn’t seen much NHL time because they think he’s the next Gaudreau. People are disappointed because they’ve had to watch Lucic/Lewis plug it up all year.

Is Phillips worse than Duehr? Mitch Love doesn’t think so, or Duehr would be playing the big minutes for the Wranglers. However, Duehr has fit in just fine on the big team and is fun to watch. So we have a player who plays the same position as Duehr, who is better than him, with a longer track record of success, but he’s stuck in the minors pretty much entirely because he’s half a foot shorter than the coach would like. Not because he’s worse at hockey.

The expectation for any AHL callup is just “don’t be the worst guy on the team”. As long as you’re not the worst, someone else should be in the pressbox instead of you. Duehr seems to be accomplishing this.

Now I know that there are differences when it comes to depth guys, a guy that is a PP ace in the AHL probably won’t get the PP time to stay effective in the NHL. I haven’t watched enough Wranglers games to know if Phillips is still effective at even strength.

Duehr seems far more likely to be an NHLer...size matters obviously

Phillips wouldn't be effective in a 4th line roles he needs to be top six

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Duehr seems far more likely to be an NHLer...size matters obviously

Phillips wouldn't be effective in a 4th line roles he needs to be top six

How much better is a guy like Mangiapane or Dube than Phillips? Honest question. I bet if you watched them for 50 hours, you’d notice almost negligible differences. People get focused on names and reputation and contracts and the NHL glitz and glam. When it comes down to it? Not that different between the AHL and NHL.

How does Mangi perform on line 4 for 6 minutes a night?

These guys need to be rotated in and out to stay working hard and performing.

[Sandman]

The leading scorers in the AHL are:

-5'9" Michael Carcone, 26 (9 points in 30 NHL games)
-5'8" TJ Tynan, 31 (1 pt in 21 NHL games)
-5'10" Alex Barre-Boulet, 25 (9 pts in 32 NHL games)
-6'3" Logan Shaw, 30 (39 pts in 232 NHL games)
-5'7" Matt Phillips, 24 (0 pts in 3 NHL games)
-5'7" Trey Fix-Wolansky, 23 (2 pts in 10 NHL games)
-6'2" D Christian Wolanin, 27 (21 pts in 75 NHL games)
-5'6" Rocco Grimaldi, 30 (67 pts in 203 NHL games)
-5'11" Anthony Richard, 26 (2 pts in 9 NHL Games)
-5'10" David Gust, 29 (1 pt in 2 NHL games)
-5'10" Chris Terry, 33 (38 pts in 152 NHL games)

To suggest that there's not a HUGE difference between the NHL and AHL is ridiculous. And, do notice a pattern in the size of most of those forwards? They are mostly tiny, and huge scorers in every league but the NHL. Sure, Phillips is the youngest guy there, and I do agree that Phillips didn't recieve more of a look in the bigs, but even if he had, I don't think it would've made much of a difference. MP is closer to Grimaldi than Gaudreau, IMO.

[Mr.Coffee]

Guess we’ll never know.


Is the point.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

How much better is a guy like Mangiapane or Dube than Phillips? Honest question. I bet if you watched them for 50 hours, you’d notice almost negligible differences. People get focused on names and reputation and contracts and the NHL glitz and glam. When it comes down to it? Not that different between the AHL and NHL.

How does Mangi perform on line 4 for 6 minutes a night?

These guys need to be rotated in and out to stay working hard and performing.

Mang and Dube are both hard-nosed and fight like dogs for space and positioning. They both play an off-puck game too. Totally different players to Phillips.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Mang and Dube are both hard-nosed and fight like dogs for space and positioning. Totally different players to Phillips.

Unless they’re “not in the mood” which happens throughout every game and for Mang has happened far more this season than actually being in the mood to work hard. Dude is on “just got it made, don’t give a F” mode all year. He scored +30 last year if you recall. Dube has been way better for sure.

I’m not sure what Phillips would or could have been. Again, we’ll never know other than just posting his height and then definitive arm wavey statements of “he’ll never work”, when he plays 6 mins on line 4. Which, let’s be honest, is not a real chance. By the looks of every Wrangler we call up though, they- to a man- outperform about half the Flames so I’m not sure how you come to the conclusion that it is “ridiculous” to state that the difference between the AHL and NHL is not large. It isn’t at all. What players that the Flames have brought up this year have struggled, in your estimation? Like actually can’t keep up or look like they don’t belong? Because I have to tell you, there’s a few Flames players that don’t look like they belong anymore. In fact every night there’s a handful of them.

[dino7c]

If Phillips is good enough he will be an NHLer at some point

I have my doubts...its not like the Flames are holding him back and everyone else around the league thinks he is some kinda star like some fans seem to. Guy has cleared waivers multiple times, and really if somebody wanted him right now a late round pick is all it would take.

Did you honestly suggest that Mangiapane and Dube aren't much better lol

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Unless they’re “not in the mood” which happens throughout every game and for Mang has happened far more this season than actually being in the mood to work hard. Dude is on “just got it made, don’t give a F” mode all year. He scored +30 last year if you recall. Dube has been way better for sure.

I’m not sure what Phillips would or could have been. Again, we’ll never know other than just posting his height and then definitive arm wavey statements of “he’ll never work”, when he plays 6 mins on line 4. Which, let’s be honest, is not a real chance. By the looks of every Wrangler we call up though, they- to a man- outperform about half the Flames so I’m not sure how you come to the conclusion that it is “ridiculous” to state that the difference between the AHL and NHL is not large. It isn’t at all. What players that the Flames have brought up this year have struggled, in your estimation? Like actually can’t keep up or look like they don’t belong? Because I have to tell you, there’s a few Flames players that don’t look like they belong anymore. In fact every night there’s a handful of them.

I'm a huge fan of Walker Duehr, for example, but he put up 26 points in 41 AHL games for a pts/gp of .63. Duehr has put up 4 points in 11 NHL games for a pts/gp of .36, and 2 of those points came against the lowly Coyotes. The only 2 players he's been better than would be Lucic and Lewis. The gulf between the AHL and NHL is HUGE.

Players from the AHL that struggled this year? DeSimone, Phillips, Rooney, Zohorna, and Mackey. Zo was good for a few games, then fell off- Sutter said as much.

[dino7c]

back to rumors...its going to be hilarious when at least half these "all in" teams are out in round one

the 15th overall pick won't look so bad at that point

bonus points when the Panthers miss the playoffs and don't have a first at all