The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Boom.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628542330423615488

Canada have comfortably been top 4 in the u17 level since 2011.

It would be great if our u20 teams weren’t an embarrassment for once when they try to qualify next time.

[browna]

Originally Posted by shermanator

About to go 2 for 2 in U-17 World Cup qualifying since the CSB deal was signed, just saying.....

Haha. I'll bite. They also qualified for 5 of them prior and hosted 1, long before.

Good for them. I'd say it has to do in large part with finally forced into recognizing western Canadian talent, thanks to the Whitecaps setting up a proper academy years (over a decade probably now) back.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by browna

Haha. I'll bite. They also qualified for 5 of them prior and hosted 1, long before.

Good for them. I'd say it has to do in large part with finally forced into recognizing western Canadian talent, thanks to the Whitecaps setting up a proper academy years (over a decade probably now) back.

That’s a strange take. The u17 team has gotten more consistent by having 3 MLS academies. Nothing more to it.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Canada have comfortably been top 4 in the u17 level since 2011.

It would be great if our u20 teams weren’t an embarrassment for once when they try to qualify next time.

The take was a joke at the recent CSA / CSB drama, but I guess I'll maybe throw a few facts your way.

If you ignore 2015 when they finished 5th and 2017 when they finished 7th, sure, they finished comfortably in the top 4 every time since 2011. And if you conveniently forget that they didn't qualify for 2005, 2007 or 2009 and that they only qualified for 2003 because they hosted then yes they have regularly succeeded at the U-17 level in the last 20 years.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by shermanator

The take was a joke at the recent CSA / CSB drama, but I guess I'll maybe throw a few facts your way.

If you ignore 2015 when they finished 5th and 2017 when they finished 7th, sure, they finished comfortably in the top 4 every time since 2011. And if you conveniently forget that they didn't qualify for 2005, 2007 or 2009 and that they only qualified for 2003 because they hosted then yes they have regularly succeeded at the U-17 level in the last 20 years.

They’re in the top 4 Concacaf countries for total qualifications since 2011, right behind the U.S and Mexico.

No idea why you’re going back to 2003 when I referenced beginning in 2011, but if you want to argue with yourself about the last 20 years when no else is, have at it if it makes you feel better.

[shermanator]

Sure, if you want to change the argument from "Canada have comfortably been top 4 in the u17 level since 2011." to "They’re in the top 4 Concacaf countries for total qualifications since 2011, right behind the U.S and Mexico.", then fair enough, that is correct.

If we want to talk about MLS academies and their development of Canadian talent then I think there are some big issues with how these clubs develop players and transition them from prospects to quality players at the pro level. For years our U-17 and U-20 teams have consisted largely of products from the 3 MLS clubs. At the U-17 level this isn't really an issue as everyone is a prospect and at best a few players have played USL Championship first team football, so there's not as much of a gap between Canada and the other countries. Where the MLS clubs struggle is the ability to move these players from prospect to something better. Because of the rapidly growing level of play in the league clubs are desperate to win and win now and as such young talent is rarely trusted to jump into the first team.

In the almost 40 years combined of these clubs being around the number of players who go from prospect to have a big career at a high level is small; Davies is the obvious example. Outside of that, is there anyone else? Kone looks to be one with his small sample size. Sam Adekugbe flourished once he got out of Vancouver. Max Crepeau will be solid assuming he can come back from injury. Osorio has had a good career but he was largely developed at Nacional. After that, the best career is probably Russell Teibert or Doneil Henry; not exactly names you want to see on a team sheet.

Even within the last year TFC have given up on Jayden Nelson, Ralph Priso and are burying Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, all at a time when they need first team minutes to develop.

So our competition at the U-20 level sees other countries field players with more pro experience playing against tougher competition while our players are largely reserve team players. And we lose to 10 man Cuba with an outfield player in goal or St. Kitts and Nevis.

This is where in theory CSB and the creation of the CPL helps out; more academies can produce more players who can move into a first team role much easier. The level of play is not as high and is easier to jump into. For the first few years it's been a moo point as the CPL head office didn't really like academies, but that's changing. Cavalry has always had one, and Pacific, York and HFX are all establishing them.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Sure, if you want to change the argument from "Canada have comfortably been top 4 in the u17 level since 2011." to "They’re in the top 4 Concacaf countries for total qualifications since 2011, right behind the U.S and Mexico.", then fair enough, that is correct.

If we want to talk about MLS academies and their development of Canadian talent then I think there are some big issues with how these clubs develop players and transition them from prospects to quality players at the pro level. For years our U-17 and U-20 teams have consisted largely of products from the 3 MLS clubs. At the U-17 level this isn't really an issue as everyone is a prospect and at best a few players have played USL Championship first team football, so there's not as much of a gap between Canada and the other countries. Where the MLS clubs struggle is the ability to move these players from prospect to something better. Because of the rapidly growing level of play in the league clubs are desperate to win and win now and as such young talent is rarely trusted to jump into the first team.

In the almost 40 years combined of these clubs being around the number of players who go from prospect to have a big career at a high level is small; Davies is the obvious example. Outside of that, is there anyone else? Kone looks to be one with his small sample size. Sam Adekugbe flourished once he got out of Vancouver. Max Crepeau will be solid assuming he can come back from injury. Osorio has had a good career but he was largely developed at Nacional. After that, the best career is probably Russell Teibert or Doneil Henry; not exactly names you want to see on a team sheet.

Even within the last year TFC have given up on Jayden Nelson, Ralph Priso and are burying Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, all at a time when they need first team minutes to develop.

So our competition at the U-20 level sees other countries field players with more pro experience playing against tougher competition while our players are largely reserve team players. And we lose to 10 man Cuba with an outfield player in goal or St. Kitts and Nevis.

This is where in theory CSB and the creation of the CPL helps out; more academies can produce more players who can move into a first team role much easier. The level of play is not as high and is easier to jump into. For the first few years it's been a moo point as the CPL head office didn't really like academies, but that's changing. Cavalry has always had one, and Pacific, York and HFX are all establishing them.

CPL pro experience was supposed to be the big difference this time around at the u20 Concacaf tournament last year. I’m not holding my breath that it will move the needle at the u20 level for our program.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

I want to highlight Alessandro Biello in the base of the midfield for the Canada U-17s. So composed on the ball and his vision is way ahead of his teammates. You can tell he's a coach's son. Could be one to watch as he develops

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

CPL pro experience was supposed to be the big difference this time around at the u20 Concacaf tournament last year. I’m not holding my breath that it will move the needle at the u20 level for our program.

The CPL U20 guys looked head and shoulders above a lot of the academy guys at that tournament for Canada. The problem is right now there aren't enough at them at that level but it'll come

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

CPL pro experience was supposed to be the big difference this time around at the u20 Concacaf tournament last year. I’m not holding my breath that it will move the needle at the u20 level for our program.

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

The CPL U20 guys looked head and shoulders above a lot of the academy guys at that tournament for Canada. The problem is right now there aren't enough at them at that level but it'll come

Yep, with Academy development, I feel the CPL would be wise to increase both the current requirement of 3 Canadian U-21 players, and an increase from the 2,000 total minutes. Say for the 2025 season. 4 & 2,600?

Sherm et all, is there a website that best details the u-21 domestic production for the CPL?

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

The CPL U20 guys looked head and shoulders above a lot of the academy guys at that tournament for Canada. The problem is right now there aren't enough at them at that level but it'll come

I don’t agree they looked heads and shoulders above. Some were good (Poku, Wright) some were bad (Catavalo, Habibullah, Assi).

Justin Smith was our only stand out. Poku was the only other one who distinguished himself.

The idea that one year of pro soccer (for an 18 or 19 year old) is going to substantially change our u20 success rate is misguided especially due to the fact a lot of these other kids are playing MLS Nextpro, which is still “somewhat” of a professional environment.

Where the CPL should really help improvement is with our 23 squad and our senior squad by increasing our depth. Our u23 squad used to consist mostly of crappy U.S college players and MLS players who never played for their club team along with a sprinkling of foreign guys who usually didn’t improve the standard of play.

[Johnny199r]

USA u17 2 Can u17 0 last night.

In reality, a fair score reflection of the match would have been around 5-0.

It seems the gap between US and Mexico vs the rest of the region at this level is wide.

The U.S could have fielded a couple of teams that likely would have qualified.

[shermanator]

Dun dun dunnnnn....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1630286984190087171

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Please let it happen.

I can't see Bontis going away without a fight

[Johnny199r]

Bontis was just appointed VP of CONCACAF. Doubt he leaves easily.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1630309709352779776

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Bontis was just appointed VP of CONCACAF. Doubt he leaves easily.

Happy to be wrong.

[cSpooge]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1630310738047774727


Officially out.

[shermanator]

Bontis resigning is the first step forward in resolving this mess. Next up, get the CSA, CSB, and the national teams in the same room and get to negotiating.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

This is a happy day for Canada Soccer. It won't fix things. But it is the first step