2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames are one of the worst asset managing franchises in the league. They’ll wait to lower player values before trading them or just walk them to free agency.

It’s just how they roll.

I know. It’s just maddening. I wish the Flames were more like the Blues. Doug Armstrong has a team he thinks has a legitimate chance, or he sells. Why can’t the Flames do that? Be honest about what you have, and act decisively.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I hate the Oilers as much as any one but what I hate more than that is the Flames mediocrity for the last 25 years since I've been watching. Tanev will only move the needle so much for Edmonton and that needle wont be to a cup.

Long term the picks would help and pool party could be the next Edmonton pick outcasted to strive on another team. It seems we May or may not make the playoffs and if they do not for long.

Bolded point is why the Flames suck and had 2 franchise players walk out and only got assets for 1.

I hate the Oilers 2 but I hate the Flames sucking more. Take a deal that benifiets you.

If you told a lot of people here to pick between the Oilers winning the cup this year and the Flames winning it in 2024, or neither team winning it in either year, quite a few would pick the latter.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames are one of the worst asset managing franchises in the league. They’ll wait to lower player values before trading them or just walk them to free agency.

It’s just how they roll.

The organization has been terrible when it comes to maximizing asset value which has a lot to do with the fact the organization refuses to make proactive moves and instead just lets things ride out in hopes of just squeaking into the playoffs as they will this season.

[1qqaaz]

Nashville is at 56.1% point percentage this season. They've sold multiple assets this week.
Calgary is at 55.0% point percentage. Yet there is still considerable talk about buying.

This is despite the fact that Nashville has Saros, a goalie is conceivably good enough to anchor a playoff run to the finals. Calgary has no such goalie.

The good thing is that if Nashville is out, then Calgary is really only competing against Winnipeg, Seattle, Edmonton and Minnesota. The problem is that all of these teams are far ahead of Calgary. They're all at least 11 games above .500, while Calgary is only 6.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Like I said, Neal was a career 20 goal man. Every year. And as for stories saying it was good news:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ames/36563771/

Neal has topped 20 goals in each of his 10 NHL seasons, and was considered the top player left on the free-agent market a day after the NHL's signing period opened.

https://thehockeywriters.com/james-n...-with-calgary/

Neal is a lock to score 20 goals and there were few players in free agency anyone could say that about. He had 25 goals and 44 points in 71 games with the Vegas Golden Knights last season then added six goals and 11 points in 20 games during their run to the Stanley Cup Final. He’s played for winning organizations like Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vegas and Dallas and he’s a veteran with proven playoff experience. Regardless of who he plays with, he’ll put the puck in the back of the net.

https://theathletic.com/419273/2018/...ions-up-front/

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...er-james-neal/

https://fansided.com/2018/07/02/calg...s-stanley-cup/

https://www.thesportster.com/news/ca...mes-neal-sign/

Thought I’d look through these for fun. Stopped after the first one, a USA Today article by an unnamed writer that offers no opinion on the quality of the signing at all.

At the time , like with every free against signing, people wrote about the player signed and what he brought to the table. Neal was a consistent goal scorer, no doubt about it. But to say “experts” thought it was a shrewd move is overstating it IMO. Neal’s reputation was extremely well known and it was always high risk winning a bidding war for player like that at his age.

I will give Treliving credit for sticking to his philosophy of building a team through veteran UFA signings. I wonder if any team has embraced it more?

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The organization has been terrible when it comes to maximizing asset value which has a lot to do with the fact the organization refuses to make proactive moves and instead just lets things ride out in hopes of just squeaking into the playoffs as they will this season.

They aren’t sneaking into the playoffs this year. Not a frigging chance!!

[Ped]

While it's true that a lot of people thought Neal was a good signing, there were people already throwing out warning bells as well. Fans and even reports tend to look at a player's overall history and maybe not so much the recent.

Trades and signings can never be judged right away anyway, as we see time and time again. Look at the O'Reilly trade - it was widely considered iirc a bunch of junk going to Buffalo, and look at Tage Thompson now.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

They aren’t sneaking into the playoffs this year. Not a frigging chance!!

Not likely but everyone in the building is operating right now like they are hoping to get in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ped

While it's true that a lot of people thought Neal was a good signing, there were people already throwing out warning bells as well. Fans and even reports tend to look at a player's overall history and maybe not so much the recent.

Trades and signings can never be judged right away anyway, as we see time and time again. Look at the O'Reilly trade - it was widely considered iirc a bunch of junk going to Buffalo, and look at Tage Thompson now.

Obviously the Neal signing was bad, but there just weren't people warning about anything except maybe term, and I have only seen one. Term wasn't the issue as it turned out - just Neal being crap on and off the ice.

But none of that was the point - there was an argument that the Neal signing was widely derided and that Treliving was seen as some sort of laughing stock based on those signings at the time they were made. none of that is true.

They summer Neal was signed (with people like Duhaschek saying it was a good move) Treliving was also seen as having "won" a bidding war for Czarnik and the move that was questioned was Derek Ryan at $3M.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Didn’t Tkachuk resign in 2019? Is there precedent to a player of Tkachuk’s caliber extending to a long term deal a year before his ELC expires? name one. Also do you believe, after all we’ve seen, that is how Tkachuk goes about his business? Please. 2+2 doesn’t equal 6. You’re reaching.

Again, the direction from Edwards, in all likelihood, was make the playoffs. Not make the playoffs in 2-3 years. Make the playoffs now. It’s been that way since the cap.

Lastly, there’s no reason to believe your suggested way of how things should have/could have turned into better results. Tkachuk’s not here anymore and I doubt, very much, it was ever going to play out any different. Laying the blame at Treliving’s feet is completely unfounded.

McDavid, he is a decent player who signed a year before his ELC expired. I think he is at least as good as Tkachuk.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Obviously the Neal signing was bad, but there just weren't people warning about anything except maybe term, and I have only seen one. Term wasn't the issue as it turned out - just Neal being crap on and off the ice.

But none of that was the point - there was an argument that the Neal signing was widely derided and that Treliving was seen as some sort of laughing stock based on those signings at the time they were made. none of that is true.

They summer Neal was signed (with people like Duhaschek saying it was a good move) Treliving was also seen as having "won" a bidding war for Czarnik and the move that was questioned was Derek Ryan at $3M.

Ya that was not the argument at all, #### you would be a fun guy to have as a learned friend in court. You said the signings were “well reviewed” not that he was a laughing stock. And at best the articles they you found said it could work out for the first couple years.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If Jeanot is returning that haul we need to seriously consider seeing what the market is for Toffoli and Tanev.

We are doing zero damage even if we get in with the goaltending we have this season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya that was not the argument at all, #### you would be a fun guy to have as a learned friend in court. You said the signings were “well reviewed” not that he was a laughing stock. And at best the articles they you found said it could work out for the first couple years.

That's not what the articles say. And you were the one saying (and not proving) that the signings were derided.

They all say Neal was the best UFA on the market at the time. They all say Neal was a proven goal scorer and the Flames needed one. They virtually guaranteed 20 goals. Hardly any even mention term as a ngative BTW).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

LOL, I cited Neal, he was the 0.6 PPG guy. Nobody thought that was a good contrast. Brouwer was a mere 0.5 PPG guy that we sunk big money into.

Prove me your right where the Neal signing was lauded around the league as a great longterm signing for the Flames.

Dis you? I showed my evidence writers thought it was a good signing. Let's see yours that they thought it wasn't.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

If you told a lot of people here to pick between the Oilers winning the cup this year and the Flames winning it in 2024, or neither team winning it in either year, quite a few would pick the latter.

We have no idea how your hypothetical vote would go, but we do know this: that silly Tanev trade would significantly help the Oilers' chances of that cup this year, but would be a massive negative towards the Flames' chances at a cup in 2024.

Anyone who would trade Tanev to EDM for a couple late picks should take a break and re-evaluate their life choices.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We have no idea how your hypothetical vote would go, but we do know this: that silly Tanev trade would significantly help the Oilers' chances of that cup this year, but would be a massive negative towards the Flames' chances at a cup in 2024.

Anyone who would trade Tanev to EDM for a couple late picks should take a break and re-evaluate their life choices.

NO trade of a good player to Edmonton, ever. Only ticking time bombs.

I do think Tanev would net a great return from a deserving team, and Tanev deserves a ring.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The James Neal signing was applauded by people on a team that was desperate to add some offence to it.

Nobody knew or at the time it never was out there that was he was a bad character off the ice.

I guess being good buddies with that piece of trash Commodore should have been a warning sign but no one really knew at the time.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Obviously the Neal signing was bad, but there just weren't people warning about anything except maybe term, and I have only seen one. Term wasn't the issue as it turned out - just Neal being crap on and off the ice.

Perhaps I worded badly - I mean there were warning signs with Neal's performance before the Flames signed him. And I'll concede that the signing was widely praised - but even the sportsnet article when he signed mentioned his shot rate was already declining.

And the warning signs were there, for those who chose to look at them. David Staples:

July 3, 2018, David Staples, the Cult of Hockey: “Some wild contracts handed out in the National Hockey League in recent days, no? The biggest mistake is paying players heading out of their peak years for what they achieved in their peak years, as if that was going to continue that level of player… James Neal will be 31 this year, which is when players tend to take a drop in performance. Neal may already have done so, going from about a point per game player from 2011-15 to about a 0.60 point per game player since then. That’s a lot of money for a 0.60 point per game player, especially as another drop in performance is generally expected.

The Neal signing doesn't make Treliving a bad GM. But there's a reason the shift league-wide has been to stop handing out big money to older players and instead give it to younger players - paying for potential, rather than what the player has done.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The James Neal signing was applauded by people on a team that was desperate to add some offence to it.

Nobody knew or at the time it never was out there that was he was a bad character off the ice.

I guess being good buddies with that piece of trash Commodore should have been a warning sign but no one really knew at the time.

Oh this was absolutely known. The concern over Neal was more about when his play would drop off and the consensus seemed to be after 2 years. Instead it was 2 months.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ped

Perhaps I worded badly - I mean there were warning signs with Neal's performance before the Flames signed him. And I'll concede that the signing was widely praised - but even the sportsnet article when he signed mentioned his shot rate was already declining.

And the warning signs were there, for those who chose to look at them. David Staples:



The Neal signing doesn't make Treliving a bad GM. But there's a reason the shift league-wide has been to stop handing out big money to older players and instead give it to younger players - paying for potential, rather than what the player has done.

I admit to never having read a David Staples column. So there's one example.

I do think the Flames didn't do any off ice reviewing of Neal. I certainly didn't know the things I later found out.