The Calgary Flames "goalie killers" Jordan Sigalet (and now) Jason LaBarbera

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The good
Talbot
Ramo

The bad & the ugly
Berra
Ortio
Hiller
Elliott
Smith
Rittich
Markstrom

Vladar: TBD but not looking great

What do they all have in common? They either regressed or had a horrific collapse of some sort by the end of their Flames tenures

Kari Ramo is the only goalie that played multiple seasons for the Flames and was able to sustain consistently decent numbers

What are these two doing to guide these players and help them with their technical and positional issues?

Why are more cases than not irreparable by the end of their time on this team?

A clear pattern is forming here with the trajectory of goalies and there have been too many players of different backgrounds that have fallen to the same fate to brush it off as coincidence

With a promising young talent like Wolf now coming up through the ranks, what is this team doing in order to make sure he has the right people in his ear guiding him when he graduates to the NHL level, so we avoid a similar outcome with him?

I'd like to see some internal accountability as it has been a decade of more or less the same results

[Southside403]

Trent you need a companion take some time off the board relax reset

[Heavy Jack]

We need to do everything we can to keep them away from Trent and Southside.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Didn't Markstrom get nominated for the Vezina last year though? I get it that he has had a tough year so far but seems like a bit of a stretch to say he is awful and the goalie coach is bad.

As for the rest of the list, they weren't great goaltenders before and they in weren't good NHL goaltenders after.... So maybe it is just the Flames not drafting good goaltenders, having to bargain shop the league and then paying money to a goaltender who is getting older (Markstrom is 33 afterall and all the top goalies seem to be getting younger)

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Didn't Markstrom get nominated for the Vezina last year though?

not just that, Vladar was better too. I have no idea what happened this year, but goaltending as a whole has just fallen off a cliff. Team save percentage went from 5th to 29th in the league ... what the hell happened? Same goalies, same coaching staff. How does it turn from an organizational strength to a weakness, practically overnight, without any significant changes? I just don't get it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by devo22

not just that, Vladar was better too. I have no idea what happened this year, but goaltending as a whole has just fallen off a cliff. Team save percentage went from 5th to 29th in the league ... what the hell happened? Same goalies, same coaching staff. How does it turn from an organizational strength to a weakness, practically overnight, without any significant changes? I just don't get it.

Confidence.


Niether guy has any right now.

[BagoPucks]

I have been beating this drum for a while now and I am going to stop soon but I actually think the real problem I'd the D in front of the goalies than the goalies themselves. Things have snowballed in the goalies mind and now its just a big funk

[Flamesfan05]

Markstrom had a horrible first year, good last year and one of the worst goalies in the league this year.

The Flames couldn’t score in his first year, can’t score consistently this year
Blew out opponents last year most times with one of the best lines in the league

The difference? Markstrom is fine unless you need him to win games. He is a flake.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

We need to do everything we can to keep them away from Trent and Southside.

Don't confuse me with a cousin

[browna]

Completely confidence.
Markstrom especially.

Starting with the Oilers series he seemed to be more tensed up and a lot of shots starting leaking through him, maybe because he can't feel the puck being tensed up?
That's continued this year and he's seem to try and tweak his style...now he's more active in the creases but seems to be losing his net.

Overall it's tough cycle most of this season, and 3 of the last 4 games goes to show...the Flames as skaters are playing the system most games and dominating and outworking opponents in these games, but hitting posts and not finishing chances, which catches up to them.

Especially the timing of the missed chances at crucial times of games. Mangipane two breakaways vs the Flyers when up by 2 goals. One goes in, and the game is over and the Flyers don't stay alive and get life, and thus instead play out the string and the Flames goalies don't get those chances against them to score and Flames win 5-1. Instead, some misses, Flyers catch a break and it's 3-2 not 4-1 and it's a tight game where the team gets nervous.

Same vs Phoenix, Toffolli hits a post (or it would be tied) and 9 seconds later it's in our net and down by 2.... but the Flames got some ugly goals after dominating and being down 2 goals, and roll over Arizona, who got shut down by the team and the goalies as the Flames rolled.

Vegas, the Flames the better team all night and played the system to a t...a couple posts late in second and early third which would've put the game away don't go in, and then it's nervous time for everyone including the goalies and everyone adjusts their game.

Both goalies need run support and TBQH, well timed run support, to get that confidence back... the players have been playing well enough to get them that, but not rewarded on the scoreboard at critical times in games and then the slow burn happens.

[taxbuster]

Hard to say. Marky's pattern seems to be to give up a couple or three early, then make a dozen 10-bell saves when the game is more-or-less out of reach. Ava game was a good example.

But the goalie coaches have gotta go. Like it or not, they have to take the fall.

[soulchoice]

I’d have no issue with the Flames releasing both of them, and if it does happen, it’ll likely be at the end of the year. They may not be the only reason for the performance of the goalies, but they certainly are not the solution. Get rid of them and start fresh.

[Bingo]

Yeah not sure you can have a tandem 4th in one season and then 30th the next and blame the coaching.

[just_tim]

Originally Posted by devo22

not just that, Vladar was better too. I have no idea what happened this year, but goaltending as a whole has just fallen off a cliff. Team save percentage went from 5th to 29th in the league ... what the hell happened? Same goalies, same coaching staff. How does it turn from an organizational strength to a weakness, practically overnight, without any significant changes? I just don't get it.

It comes down to coaching. I personally have been a huge Sutter supporter over the years but I’m growing tired of his act. As is always the case with teams he coaches, eventually he loses the room. It’s simply too hard to play with the kind of intensity and attention to detail he demands and then get ripped in the media when things go sideways. Whether Huberdeau gave his agent permission to say what was said about Sutter or not, the agent said what players and fans are already thinking. The trope about “not too high, not too low” is BS as it’s ALWAYS just low. No celebration of good works done, no happiness. Some people find silver linings in dark clouds. Sutter finds dark clouds to smother anything good.

So how does that relate to goaltending? Look at the defensive breakdowns. That is coaching. I know Sutter wants to play a man style defence and chase/pressure possession, and while that may have worked in prior years, it was tenuous even then and relied on having a highly mobile and fast D corps supported by their center. Add in the staggering increase in overall game pace over the last several years and that type of D no longer works. There have been no adjustments. Just the same breakdowns since Game 1 leading to ridiculously high-danger chances that leave a shell shocked goaltending tandem as cannon fodder. Unless something changes related to the system or the guy in charge, goaltending will suffer. The bonus is that the centers suffer too, so locked into their defensive responsibilities that they have no room to create, leading to simple plays executed simply from low danger areas so that they’re always positioned to get back on D. Lots of shots from easy areas make the oppositions goaltenders all look like Dryden.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah not sure you can have a tandem 4th in one season and then 30th the next and blame the coaching.

I feel like this is sort of the crux of the issue. Goalies come here, start off well, fall off, don't recover. I suppose next year would be the tell, but there is a pattern

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I feel like this is sort of the crux of the issue. Goalies come here, start off well, fall off, don't recover. I suppose next year would be the tell, but there is a pattern

I'm not a witch hunt guy ... it's been an odd year. Flames skaters aren't finishing, stoppers aren't stopping.

Hallebucyk in Winnipeg is up and down year over year as well and people just assume the Jets figured it out. Nope.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not a witch hunt guy ... it's been an odd year. Flames skaters aren't finishing, stoppers aren't stopping.

Hallebucyk in Winnipeg is up and down year over year as well and people just assume the Jets figured it out. Nope.

His numbers are still good enough to have a team qualify never under. 910%

Markstrom is having one of the worst seasons we have seen in a while. His numbers are embarrassing for a 6 million starter.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

His numbers are still good enough to have a team qualify never under. 910%

Markstrom is having one of the worst seasons we have seen in a while. His numbers are embarrassing for a 6 million starter.

For sure ... but then this year every goaltender is down (can't remember the differential) but .907 last year is something like .895 this year.

[dustygoon]

Ya well....doesn't have to be a witch hunt to see our biggest issue is goaltending. As kids, we were told to not hang losses on goalies and it still is difficult.

But there seems to be a trend.

Not sure what teams have this figured out though...Pittsburgh doesn't. Oilers don't. Vancouver maybe? Carolina does?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure ... but then this year every goaltender is down (can't remember the differential) but .907 last year is something like .895 this year.

It's a second season when scoring is going up.

Looks like the talent level is as high as it's ever been and we need to adjust our expectations from a goals again point of view?