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Old 02-24-2023, 04:47 PM   #321
TrentCrimmIndependent
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70 pts is not acceptable for the contract Hubby got no matter how good his defensive metrics are

85 pts is acceptablish in this system
If he's one of the top 2 or 3 defensive players on the team, and in the upper echelon in the league like he has been, 70 is acceptable to me

A lot of stars have played below a PPG under Sutter, while the teams went on to do great things

70 points, plus the strong prevent play, translates to much more than a 100 point player in a porous offense-first system

I think that needs to be acknowledged.
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Old 02-24-2023, 04:50 PM   #322
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sorry if this has been said but those guys who tried to put the curse on Oettinger last year monkey pawed us....Marky was immediately brutal and now it's affecting Vladar.

somebody reverse the curse!!!!
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Old 02-24-2023, 04:54 PM   #323
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A good question to ask is, would you rather have prime Kopitar under Darryl to lead your team in playoffs, or McDavid's one dimensional high offense under the Beaver?

Obviously Huberdeau isn't a center, but what matters to me is a positive gap between goals scored and goals allowed when his group is on the ice

Scoring more just to allow proportionally more goals against doesn't do much for the results on the scoreboard.
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Old 02-24-2023, 05:03 PM   #324
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Not much to choose amongst our red hot goalies now.

Vladar. 2.90 GAA .894 S%
Markstrom: 2.93 GAA .889 S%
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Old 02-24-2023, 05:09 PM   #325
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Not much to choose amongst our red hot goalies now.

Vladar. 2.90 GAA .894 S%
Markstrom: 2.93 GAA .889 S%
Net is cursed.

Can we send Wolf to a shaman before bringing him in?
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Old 02-24-2023, 05:40 PM   #326
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Based on what?

Huberdeau’s not as good as Iggy. He has more to work with than early-2000s Jarome, but still - for year one?

Everything would’ve had to go right for 85 points, and virtually nothing has (except an admirable commitment to defense).
Iginla was leading the league during those seasons. The league as a whole didn’t score

Anyone who thinks 70pts and good defensive play from a winger is worth 10.5 million is nuts

85 points isn’t very hard in todays NHL - relatively speaking

He’s paid to be a superstar . He isn’t even a star this year
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Old 02-24-2023, 05:47 PM   #327
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Iginla was leading the league during those seasons. The league as a whole didn’t score

Anyone who thinks 70pts and good defensive play from a winger is worth 10.5 million is nuts

85 points isn’t very hard in todays NHL - relatively speaking

He’s paid to be a superstar . He isn’t even a star this year
Well good thing he's making "barely a star" money this year

Next year is next year

Points are also over-valued nowadays. 2 way play is undervalued.

It's about points relative to context/system for me. If this team were coached like Florida then yes, 85-100 would be a must. In a Darryl system there are more factors at play

If the team is successful and he's a key cog in that success the eye popping totals matter less

To me, 70 and responsible under Sutter translates to 85+ in a wide open system

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Old 02-24-2023, 06:58 PM   #328
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I get the frustration with Huberdeau, but I don't see a single skater having that big of a negative impact on team success and I also don't agree with that ratio between him and Sutter, to be honest.

We're a bubble team with goaltending that's close to league-worst in almost every metric - imagine where they'd be with only bang average goaltending this season.
You're right, as bad goaltending simply can't be overcome like one underperforming skater.

So I guess my ratios are more where I place blame; than actual true impact in the standings.
I don't want to give Huberdeau a pass for having a position he can get away with it at.

Him & Markstrom are probably having a similar drop in performance fron their regular selves, but Markstrom can't get away with that as a goalie.
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Old 02-24-2023, 07:09 PM   #329
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If he's one of the top 2 or 3 defensive players on the team, and in the upper echelon in the league like he has been, 70 is acceptable to me

A lot of stars have played below a PPG under Sutter, while the teams went on to do great things

70 points, plus the strong prevent play, translates to much more than a 100 point player in a porous offense-first system

I think that needs to be acknowledged.
Where would you place 50 to 55 points?
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Old 02-24-2023, 07:10 PM   #330
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sorry if this has been said but those guys who tried to put the curse on Oettinger last year monkey pawed us....Marky was immediately brutal and now it's affecting Vladar.

somebody reverse the curse!!!!
100% believe this. Season is cursed.
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Old 02-24-2023, 07:46 PM   #331
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Where would you place 50 to 55 points?
Okay, not great. Probably in line with what #10 is earning this season which is significantly less than next season
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Old 02-24-2023, 07:52 PM   #332
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Okay, not great. Probably in line with what #10 is earning this season which is significantly less than next season
It’s half what he put up last year.

It’s a boat anchor is what it is.
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Old 02-24-2023, 10:40 PM   #333
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It’s half what he put up last year.

It’s a boat anchor is what it is.
No one at 5.9 AAV putting up 2/3 of a point per game is a boat anchor

Talk to me if/when he's going at the same clip next year. Then you can call him a boat anchor
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Old 02-25-2023, 12:56 AM   #334
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No one at 5.9 AAV putting up 2/3 of a point per game is a boat anchor

Talk to me if/when he's going at the same clip next year. Then you can call him a boat anchor
Thats fine but nobody is giving a 2/3 point guy a 10.5 million contract either. Especially for 8 years.
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Old 02-25-2023, 01:14 AM   #335
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Thats fine but nobody is giving a 2/3 point guy a 10.5 million contract either. Especially for 8 years.
Except we all know that that's well below his career norm

A regression to the mean offensively is more than likely to occur

If he's adding defensive acumen to that, then all in all we might not be in awful shape for the first 3 seasons or so

The contract is way too long, I'll grant you that..
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Old 02-25-2023, 02:13 AM   #336
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Our current team would ruin Wolf this year. Better to wait till the last ten assuming they are out of the playoffs. Gives him a tryout
How? by not being a great team?

I have news for you, most of the best young goalies got their start on bad teams. Fleury, Hellebuyck, Quick, the list goes on.

And their teams were way worst than this current Flames team.

This assumption that you can ruin a young goalie by playing him is tiring, after a 103 pro games he's either got what it takes or he doesn't.
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Old 02-25-2023, 05:22 AM   #337
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How? by not being a great team?

I have news for you, most of the best young goalies got their start on bad teams. Fleury, Hellebuyck, Quick, the list goes on.

And their teams were way worst than this current Flames team.

This assumption that you can ruin a young goalie by playing him is tiring, after a 103 pro games he's either got what it takes or he doesn't.
I say never bring him to the NHL, then he can never be ruined.
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Old 02-25-2023, 03:31 PM   #338
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Iginla was leading the league during those seasons. The league as a whole didn’t score

Anyone who thinks 70pts and good defensive play from a winger is worth 10.5 million is nuts

85 points isn’t very hard in todays NHL - relatively speaking

He’s paid to be a superstar . He isn’t even a star this year
The first year out of the lockout, Iggy’s 67 points put him 55th in the league. In 2002-03, it was good for 35th. That’s not leading anything.

Huberdeau is in an entirely new situation with a bunch of guys he’s never played with, in a system known for depressing offensive production in every season it’s been deployed except for one year significantly impacted by a global pandemic.

I think he’s led by example as best he can. He hasn’t pouted, he hasn’t complained, he hasn’t made excuses, and he’s demonstrably committed to the defensive side.

I do think he’s been too passive since he got here - He needs to be way more assertive. He’s not a small guy, he’s got over a decade of pro experience and training built up. Take a few shifts over. I want to see more “get on my back” from him.

I would assume he’s being told to play more conservatively, but he isn’t blameless there either.
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Old 02-25-2023, 08:35 PM   #339
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Ok, I’m done with this goalie tandem. Bring on Wolf!
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Old 02-25-2023, 09:12 PM   #340
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Fire the goaltending coaching staff first!
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