Shadow Banning Yoho

[Azure]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I'll give you a pass since covid is more or less in the past

Sure, if you want to call it polite. But every one knows you're impossible to reason with when people challenge your highly questionable views. And so engaging with you on anything becomes a time wasting circular discussion

Covid, Trump and the convoy shenanigans helped to illuminate who's living on Theo Island and who lives in the real world

Even if you don't agree with them, there have been different approaches to COVID that have had different results. Sweden as an example approached it very different than North America did. Many European countries also looked at prior infection different than North America did, as another example.

I have no idea how you think about COVID, but I know that there are many self-proclaimed experts, internet warriors and even official government bodies that were very adamant how right they were about what they thought should happen, and in the end they were wrong.

The problem is the outlook that someone who thinks different has 'highly questionable views' leads to echo chamber, group think mentalities. Exactly what you think the convoy supporters have, and they probably do. But don't think for a second that you're on the righteous side where such mentalities don't exist.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I'll give you a pass since covid is more or less in the past

Sure, if you want to call it polite. But every one knows you're impossible to reason with when people challenge your highly questionable views. And so engaging with you on anything becomes a time wasting circular discussion

Covid, Trump and the convoy shenanigans helped to illuminate who's living on Theo Island and who lives in the real world

Thank you for the pass I guess. I made statements or observations and had reasonable debate with several posters. You not being one of them.

Please point out where I made any Trump or convoy statements. You are typical of the poster that only hears what you want to hear and attacks any other opposing view and with no merit to your argument. As I just pointed out to you. Who is the one who won't see reason?

[iggy_oi]

I honestly don’t see Yoho as a troll, I see him as someone who isn’t able to back up or at the very least effectively back up what they’re saying so they choose not to try. The same can be said about a lot of people on this forum and in real life as well. In my view silencing them doesn’t serve a purpose. Either ignore their posts or respond with a counter without expecting to change their minds. As Azure touched on a little bit, trying to control what people say leads to an echo chamber and creates a victim mentality. Neither of which contribute to reasonable discussion.

[ResAlien]

The internet is much easier when you understand everyone else is stupid. Even you dear reader, you’re at the top of the list. I’m sorry about that.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I honestly don’t see Yoho as a troll, I see him as someone who isn’t able to back up or at the very least effectively back up what they’re saying so they choose not to try. The same can be said about a lot of people on this forum and in real life as well. In my view silencing them doesn’t serve a purpose. Either ignore their posts or respond with a counter without expecting to change their minds. As Azure touched on a little bit, trying to control what people say leads to an echo chamber and creates a victim mentality. Neither of which contribute to reasonable discussion.

I agree, not a troll. But if all you contribute is posting the latest news from Rebel News or the latest polls, at the very least you are a spam poster.

I do understand where GGG is coming from though, because he's one of the few posters on here who is always up for a good discussion on any topic, and has always spoken out against any type of poster who pulls your typical message board shenanigans.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I honestly don’t see Yoho as a troll, I see him as someone who isn’t able to back up or at the very least effectively back up what they’re saying so they choose not to try. The same can be said about a lot of people on this forum and in real life as well. In my view silencing them doesn’t serve a purpose. Either ignore their posts or respond with a counter without expecting to change their minds. As Azure touched on a little bit, trying to control what people say leads to an echo chamber and creates a victim mentality. Neither of which contribute to reasonable discussion.

Well he meets all the definitions of a troll.

No meaningful engagement, posting controversial stuff just for reactions, posting misinformation, posting low quality articles from poor sources with no attempt to discuss or engage etc. That’s what trolling is. Posting garbage to illicit strong reactions in bad faith.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I honestly don’t see Yoho as a troll, I see him as someone who isn’t able to back up or at the very least effectively back up what they’re saying so they choose not to try. The same can be said about a lot of people on this forum and in real life as well. In my view silencing them doesn’t serve a purpose. Either ignore their posts or respond with a counter without expecting to change their minds. As Azure touched on a little bit, trying to control what people say leads to an echo chamber and creates a victim mentality. Neither of which contribute to reasonable discussion.

I dunno though, I don't think it's as simple as that here. The problem isn't that people don't like what he says, it's that it's a constant mess of derailed threads and arguing about nothing. It's not just that they disagree with him, the poster actually ruins threads they participate in. Obviously you can say that's on others and not him, but the way I see it that's what makes it such a high quality troll job. Yoho gets to look innocent while the other people get frustrated, even though yoho caused it, and sadly a lot of people fall for that act.

It's like people have never dealt with a dedicated troll before. He fits the description perfectly. As sensationist as this thread seems, and shadow ban isn't quite the right term, GGG is spot on calling for people to follow the suggestions in the original post. If we could all get on the same page and not engage, then problem solved.

There's a reason he's such a problem but other people that are known for having 'different' opinions are left alone.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Azure

Even if you don't agree with them, there have been different approaches to COVID that have had different results. Sweden as an example approached it very different than North America did. Many European countries also looked at prior infection different than North America did, as another example.

I have no idea how you think about COVID, but I know that there are many self-proclaimed experts, internet warriors and even official government bodies that were very adamant how right they were about what they thought should happen, and in the end they were wrong.

The problem is the outlook that someone who thinks different has 'highly questionable views' leads to echo chamber, group think mentalities. Exactly what you think the convoy supporters have, and they probably do. But don't think for a second that you're on the righteous side where such mentalities don't exist.

There were symptoms of groupthink on both sides (pro vs anti-vax), that much ill admit.

But having entertained various viewpoints and taken the time to hear them out, the fear-gripped mainstream crowd (with its own warts) was still more rooted in reality and reason than those that got their news from Twitter and rallied behind the MDs of YouTube. Even if the political leaders were blowing sunshine, the scientists and experts on the matter were not

Just look how much of a slippery slope the weaponized vaccine crowd has fallen down since.

Family members close to me that I had sympathized with have moved on to more radical conspiracies since, things like aliens orchestrating the current world conflicts, etc, which tells me they've completely lost touch and gone headfirst down the rabbit hole

Just look at what Theo's posting nowadays. He's was already raising eyebrows, but now he's past the point of no return

Its not about "thinking differently". That is perfectly fine when you can have a reasonable, sober debate on the topic and demonstrate an understanding of the points from the other side without blatant disregard

But in many cases its long past "thinking different"

It's a solemn acknowledgement that some people have just retreated to a reality that doesn't align with reality, probably because it provides them with comfort and escape from the real world - a reality they can more easily come to terms with. But the viewpoints are just becoming more alarmingly fiction-based as they lean into the defense mechanism of identification with nutty influencers

There are viewpoints we should tolerate and respect in healthy debate, but some we shouldn't even give the time of day to

I can't say for sure, but there are posters on this board that have displayed reason to believe that they've slid off the map.

So I suppose the question is should we challenge them and draw attention to it, or just disregard them entirely? When those posters can't be reasoned with and all they do is leave bait trails of misinformation, it's probably best to scroll on past them

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'm with Sliver. It's not like he means just saying #### to tick someone off, but the vibe I get from Sliver is similar to my own posting style I think (In style at least, not substance)

I've talked about it before but I just chat to everyone on here like I'm hanging around chatting to buddies, even when it comes to calling a buddy an idiot for saying something dumb. It's not to be mean, but we give each other the gears. But I do know for a fact that a lot of posters don't like this kind of posting, they find it rude and informal.

Context means a lot. Regarding banter, despite lurking for 16 years and posting for nearly 14, I don't personally know a single poster on this site. And despite having a good impression of some members' posting styles or personalities, I wouldn't say I have any type of friendly (or otherwise) relationship with anyone here.

If someone were to say I was dumb or an idiot on CP (it's happened) I would be (and have been) upset with that. Over time that's faded if not evaporated entirely, and my tolerance for a comment like that would vary from member to member. For those that are more familiar with each other it is, of course, none of my business and converse how you want. But I'm not your buddy, guy, so don't assume you can barb with me as if I'm your BFF. And if you're not doing it with a mistaken assumption, then you're just being an A-hole and need to work on your online etiquette. I'm speaking broadly, btw.

I realize saying this I come off more of a delicate flower to those on the board that prefer me to thicken up my skin. That's OK, but be mindful everyone isn't in on the joke and what rolls off my back can stick in the craw of others.

With that said I get the impression that folks like yourself and Sliver are already well aware of this and approach other members accordingly, but speaking up about it wasn't meant to be directed at either of you.

[PeteMoss]

If I find myself getting annoyed at other posters.. I just log off. Its a message board with people who are mainly on the other side of the country as me and we are talking about inane things - no need to get riled up.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well he meets all the definitions of a troll.

No meaningful engagement, posting controversial stuff just for reactions, posting misinformation, posting low quality articles from poor sources with no attempt to discuss or engage etc. That’s what trolling is. Posting garbage to illicit strong reactions in bad faith.

You’re assuming he’s doing it just for the reactions though. Not to make an accusation but it’s possible for someone to be doing what he’s doing out of sheer ignorance.

That’s the most polite way I can put it without further piling on Yoho because I don’t think that’s fair but I think you know what I mean. There’s a lot of people who do the same things Yoho does without the intent that you’re suggesting, some posters even used to accuse me of doing the same thing you’re accusing Yoho of doing. But to be fair I think that stopped when they realized I can actually back up what I post and that I’m more than willing to engage in a discussion about it if they’re not afraid to do the same.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

I do understand where GGG is coming from though, because he's one of the few posters on here who is always up for a good discussion on any topic

Sure until you prove him wrong about something and he vanishes

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Context means a lot. Regarding banter, despite lurking for 16 years and posting for nearly 14, I don't personally know a single poster on this site. And despite having a good impression of some members' posting styles or personalities, I wouldn't say I have any type of friendly (or otherwise) relationship with anyone here.

If someone were to say I was dumb or an idiot on CP (it's happened) I would be (and have been) upset with that. Over time that's faded if not evaporated entirely, and my tolerance for a comment like that would vary from member to member. For those that are more familiar with each other it is, of course, none of my business and converse how you want. But I'm not your buddy, guy, so don't assume you can barb with me as if I'm your BFF. And if you're not doing it with a mistaken assumption, then you're just being an A-hole and need to work on your online etiquette. I'm speaking broadly, btw.

I realize saying this I come off more of a delicate flower to those on the board that prefer me to thicken up my skin. That's OK, but be mindful everyone isn't in on the joke and what rolls off my back can stick in the craw of others.

With that said I get the impression that folks like yourself and Sliver are already well aware of this and approach other members accordingly, but speaking up about it wasn't meant to be directed at either of you.

Oh I totally get where you're coming from, and know it wasn't targeting people like myself. I was just adding context because I've always found it to be a very interesting discussion.

but where you say "I'm not your buddy, guy, so don't assume you can barb with me as if I'm your BFF." That's exactly what I meant in my post. To me talking to you like we're friends is just meant to be nice. The way I view it, this is supposed to be a community, so where you say it's someone being an a-hole, I say it's someone being friendly

I don't see it as you being 'soft' or any dumb #### like that, if anything I think the opposite, it feels super cold and unfriendly to me. And likewise I don't mean you specifically because you've been around long enough where I know you're not a jerk

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I think it has a lot to do with how people engage across the Internet today. Any popular social media site is lousy with hyperbolic and aggressive replies. It's a very different place than when I first started using it.

Even something like Facebook, which started as a fun tool to keep in touch and share your personality, has devolved into tribal warfare and incendiary posting to generate engagement.

Now this is a comment that's probably going to upset someone (already expecting criticism from Corsi), but I think Facebook and just social media in general has in the last 5-10 years kind of decisively demonstrated that the classical liberal ideal of "free speech" is in practice an absolutely terrible idea.

It's refreshing to hear all kinds of opinions for a little while, but over time all it leads to is everyone having to listen to opinions they hate all the damned time, and all discussions eventually degenerating into fights where those who can most effectively weaponize anger, ridicule or shame win... because that's how you drive people away from discussions, and in general the most effective way to win debates is to quickly become the only one left talking.

The marketplace of ideas is, in practice, just a deathmatch of wits.

(I'm actually pretty damned good at being an absolute s***head that can just shame, anger and ridicule people into submission if I want to, because that's frankly how I was brought up.)

So yeah, social medias are a terrible place to talk about anything anymore and they just make everyone feel like crap a lot of the time, and while I don't think CP is really part of that culture because we do have actual moderation here, we're not insulated from the effects of it. I think most people are kind of exhausted of the internet, I don't think it's just me.

It's also all those goddamned copypasted talking points. Everyone these days comes armed with the same deck of arguments and counter-arguments that they're copying from other discussions on this platform or that, until every argument in every discussion is perfectly crafted to be just the right amount of obnoxious to still pass as "conversation", while also being just un-debunkable enough to seem reasonable while actually being impossible to engage with.

I've had many really good argumentative discussions on this forum over the years, but my experiences in other corners of the internet have really just killed my interest in debating anything anymore. I don't post much anymore (which also has a lot to do with my complete lack of interest in what the Flames are doing right now), and whenever I post something that I think might be somewhat unpopular, I typically just blast a wall of text and get out before the replies so I don't have to deal with it. Not because I expect the comments are terrible (although they often are unnecessarily acerbic), I just feel like it's self preservation and wisdom to not get bogged down in debate anymore.

And I'm guessing I'm not alone in these feelings. The internet just overall sucks as a place to talk now.

My real-life friends were early adopters of irc and now we're mostly just on Discord, which is really just irc with some more bells and whistles. It's a closed environment with no "engagement" mechanics, no way to measure the popularity of a comment, and only (or mostly) people I know from other contexts. It's very old school, and it also feels like the only thing I can put up with anymore.

I also think kindness is the only way out of this crap.

[Itse]

(Btw I also think forums might make a big comeback in the next few years when people just start abandoning the large social media platforms.)

[btimbit]

I hope so, I miss forums. I'm still on plenty of them but the crowd is sure getting old on all of them, haha

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I dunno though, I don't think it's as simple as that here. The problem isn't that people don't like what he says, it's that it's a constant mess of derailed threads and arguing about nothing. It's not just that they disagree with him, the poster actually ruins threads they participate in. Obviously you can say that's on others and not him, but the way I see it that's what makes it such a high quality troll job. Yoho gets to look innocent while the other people get frustrated, even though yoho caused it, and sadly a lot of people fall for that act.

As the old saying goes, don’t feed the troll and it’ll go away. I think people are too quick to blame someone else for their own actions.

It's like people have never dealt with a dedicated troll before. He fits the description perfectly. As sensationist as this thread seems, and shadow ban isn't quite the right term, GGG is spot on calling for people to follow the suggestions in the original post. If we could all get on the same page and not engage, then problem solved.

He could fit a lot of descriptions though. I doubt people would feel the same way if they found out that Yoho had some sort of issue outside of their control that was causing their behaviour. While I agree that GGG is trying to fix an issue, I don’t think singling out a poster as the root cause of the problem is the best way of going about it.

There's a reason he's such a problem but other people that are known for having 'different' opinions are left alone.

Yes there is, but the actual reason is debatable. There are a lot of posters who try an engage with Yoho knowing full well that they won’t respond and are trying to make it as if it’s Yoho’s fault that they didn’t get a reaction they knew they wouldn’t get.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

As the old saying goes, don’t feed the troll and it’ll go away. I think people are too quick to blame someone else for their own actions.

He could fit a lot of descriptions though. I doubt people would feel the same way if they found out that Yoho had some sort of issue outside of their control that was causing their behaviour. While I agree that GGG is trying to fix an issue, I don’t think singling out a poster as the root cause of the problem is the best way of going about it.

Yes there is, but the actual reason is debatable. There are a lot of posters who try an engage with Yoho knowing full well that they won’t respond and are trying to make it as if it’s Yoho’s fault that they didn’t get a reaction they knew they wouldn’t get.

As far as I'm concerned, none of these problems we're discussing would happen if yoho was no longer allowed to keep up this troll job. He's still the cause. And what's the downside to stopping it? It's not like we'd lose anything of value without him, it's not like he's a good poster elsewhere but just bad in certain threads, his troll job is his entire schtick.

Ignoring the troll like you suggest is exactly what GGG is suggesting, but I still think it would be best if the guy just wasn't around anymore.

[Fuzz]

I'd like to hear what Yoho thinks of this thread.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by btimbit

As far as I'm concerned, none of these problems we're discussing would happen if yoho was no longer allowed to keep up this troll job. He's still the cause. And what's the downside to stopping it? It's not like we'd lose anything of value without him, it's not like he's a good poster elsewhere but just bad in certain threads, his troll job is his entire schtick.

If he were banned we’d just end up with a different troll or Yoho creating a new account and then we’re back to the same problem.

Ignoring the troll like you suggest is exactly what GGG is suggesting, but I still think it would be best if the guy just wasn't around anymore.

I see a value in what he posts, because I think it can help people who share similar views to reconsider their positions when others point out how nonsensical those views are but that’s just my opinion. Starting a thread about solutions to this kind of behaviour can be a sensible way of getting people to handle it the right way but singling out an individual seems kinda childish to me.