Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well my post said her three points were basic...so I'm not sure why you seem to imply that I think she's figured something amazing out. But more to the point, when was the last diplomat that Canada expelled for these reasons? Obviously it's what we should be doing...but are we actually doing this?

In that piece, she explains that CSIS documents show that the CCP was providing money and volunteers for campaigns. They obviously have something to base this on...clearly something has to happen, right?

Your post said that she pointed out some basic things that you thought most Canadians would agree with. I merely pointed out that while that may be the case, it doesn't necessarily solve the issue due to the complexity of intelligence organizations like CSIS. Just because something seems like a basic idea doesn't mean it's actually logical or will be successful.

Similar to my point about how some people call for the banning of guns because some criminals use them. Sure, we can ban guns (it seems like a basic idea that lots of people might agree with), but it won't stop the bad guys from getting them anyways. Sure, we can ask foreign spies to sign up for a registry like she proposed, but it likely won't work for obvious reasons. Or we could solve poverty/homelessness by providing everyone with a universal basic income. That's a nice basic idea that lots of people might agree with too, but it doesn't mean that it's logical in the complexity of the economy.

She comes across as someone who has an opinion about a topic that she knows almost nothing about, which is what I suggested in my first post. So, why would we listen to the ideas of someone who seems to have so clearly missed the mark with these 'basic' ideas?

As for expelling diplomats, I found this:

https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affa...d-kingdom.html

It's not for the same reasons as in her article, but it's obviously something we already do and are capable of doing, for a variety of reasons. So her call to expel diplomats is a bit like "Yeah, okay, we already do that". Though, the nature of intelligence operations is such that it can be quite easy for CSIS to know that foreign influence occurred, but it can be quite hard for them to prove definitively that it was carried out by a certain person/diplomat. So, expelling diplomats is a bit a tough thing, plus it has other foreign relations implications.

Regardless, my point stands, that we already do it. Besides, expelling diplomats is the least of our worries because the real heavy lifting of foreign interference isn't done by diplomats, it's done by covert spies/agents. Those people get expelled all the time, and you'll never hear about it. But, as I said in my previous post, due to the nature of China versus Canada, China likely has a ton more covert spies than we even have CSIS agents, so its a losing game for our country.

Finally, other posters in this thread questioned the legitimacy or whatever of the article. So I went and read it and gave my thoughts. I never implied you thought her points were amazing, but you seemed to agree with them. I simply suggested that her points were from someone who seems not to know what she's talking about. This wasn't some hard-hitting investigative journalism piece. This was literally someone who popped out 1000 words on a topic as quick as she could, and it shows.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

Man, this thread has gotten bad.

How so?

[Slava]

A new article from a different source that maybe some here will find a little more palatable. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...election-what/

We now know the Canadian Security Intelligence Service found there was an organized Chinese-government effort to interfere in Canada’s election in 2021. What we don’t know is whether anything has been done with that information.

It’s not a question of exposing CSIS’s spy-versus-spy world of clandestine surveillance and neutralizing threats with shadowy techniques.

What we need to know is what, if anything, emerged into the more solid world of policing elections. We need to know if Canada actually did anything about it. That’s what the House of Commons’ procedure committee has to investigate.

and it concludes with this:

Canada could have expelled Chinese diplomats. But expulsion isn’t much of a punishment for the Chinese government, which would respond in kind and send a replacement.

There would be a stronger deterrence message from prosecuting donors who broke the law in cahoots with Chinese government officials, or executives of companies that hired fake employees to volunteer on campaigns, or campaign workers who illegally returned parts of donations.

Why aren’t those things happening? MPs need to know. They might need to change the laws so such things can be prosecuted in sterner ways. Or prosecuted at all.

The key question about foreign interference is now this: Once Canadian authorities know about it, do they do anything about it?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by peter12

Man, this thread has gotten bad.

Record high food inflation happening, but everyone bickers about Chinese influence on our elections.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

A new article from a different source that maybe some here will find a little more palatable. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...election-what/



and it concludes with this:

interesting to think of this from the perspective of a MP.

Most of them probably try to run a clean campaign, or at least as clean as possible considering they're all dirty politicians, but now they have to contend with the fact that outside influences are likely to involve themselves in trying to sway votes.

And then they also have to accept the fact that the current government honestly doesn't give a ####.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Azure

Record high food inflation happening, but everyone bickers about Chinese influence on our elections.

What about Chinese food inflation

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Record high food inflation happening, but everyone bickers about Chinese influence on our elections.

Well, that food inflation is not as bad in Canada as other countries. And, notably inflation continues to decline. For January it was lower than consensus estimates, and falling faster than what was thought.

Food is difficult because there are a lot of factors. One being things like Avian Flu, or the lettuce virus/weather in the fall. Both of those issues push prices up (and cause supply problems). Major inputs like fuel have declined substantially from a year ago, and we might see some relief in that sense.

And...it's really not a government issue, despite the CPC and NDP wanting to pin it on the Liberals. Food prices are up everywhere.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What about Chinese food inflation

Thats your own problem, just order 2 dishes instead of 3.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats your own problem, just order 2 dishes instead of 3.

You know that's not how Chinese food works.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

You know that's not how Chinese food works.

Indeed...indeed I do.

"And then?"

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Azure

Record high food inflation happening, but everyone bickers about Chinese influence on our elections.

I'm pretty sure this is how democracy dies in countries.

"Hey guys, why are we worrying about the brownshirts/blackshirts beating up protestors, we are in the middle of the Great Depression!"

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I'm pretty sure this is how democracy dies in countries.

"Hey guys, why are we worrying about the brown shirts beating up protestors, we are in the middle of the Great Depression!"

There is a very strong relationship between food shortages and social unrest. I don't think we are near there, but when folks skip supper things get crazy quick.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

How so?

Regular dog-piling on one poster, ridiculous simping for a government well past its prime, and basically boring complacency substituted as reasonable political anaylsis.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by peter12

Regular dog-piling on one poster, ridiculous simping for a government well past its prime, and basically boring complacency substituted as reasonable political anaylsis.

That isn’t just this thread - you basically summed up 90% of the off topic threads and why no new threads / topics are ever discussed

Just a constant rehash of the same “opinions”

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by peter12

Regular dog-piling on one poster, ridiculous simping for a government well past its prime, and basically boring complacency substituted as reasonable political anaylsis.

Make it better

[GGG]

Originally Posted by peter12

Regular dog-piling on one poster, ridiculous simping for a government well past its prime, and basically boring complacency substituted as reasonable political anaylsis.

Where do you see as “simping” for the government. Does anyone post anything positive about Trudeau? The best you see is the alternative is worse or lamenting they have no one to vote for.

The orphaned liberal and orphaned conservatives are looking for homes. Repeatedly saying everyone sucks but this guy sucks less really doesn’t lend itself to good discourse but here we are.

Does anyone like any current policy initiative or plan by either party?

[peter12]

I mean, yes, I am in the same bucket of discouraged centrists. I get it.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by peter12

Regular dog-piling on one poster, ridiculous simping for a government well past its prime, and basically boring complacency substituted as reasonable political anaylsis.

It’s hardly dog-piling. It’s challenging opinions, and most often those challenges just get ignored. It’s people that won’t defend their positions that makes the politics thread feel a bit stale. If somebody wants to claim that Stephen Harper was the greatest thing to happen to Canada, go ahead, but expect some fact-checking and contrary opinions on that. This is a message forum, not a pulpit to just throw crap out and run away.

The problem is people flee as soon as they get some flack for an unreasoned opinion, or maybe they just realize their opinion was completely unjustifiable and have nothing to add.

[Harry Lime]

Loblaw earns $529M in Q4 profits as Canadians struggle with rising food prices. Almost a 10% rise in profits. Does anyone think that the government will act on this, or is it a 'let them eat cake' scenario?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/lob...2022-1.6757480

[Fuzz]

Have I missed the time to buy Loblaws stock? I like to invest in government sanctioned monopolies. If you can't beat them...