[PGT] Flyers 4, Flames 3

[Strange Brew]

Overall I thought they played quite well. the coach has them ready to play and playing a sound system IMO.

But the record is what it is.

57 games is a helluva sample size and they are at 90.6 points pace. No good.

Sure they might go on a run but not much support for predicting one. Something has to change.

To get to 95 points, the team would have to play at a 105 point pace the rest of the way.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Roll the dice on wolf or settle for 10th place

[BlueCharlton]

Originally Posted by Robbob

When it breaks down it breaks down in spectacular fashion. The defensive switch where Hanifin did a fly by, the handling the puck like it was a hand grenade that lead to the 2 on one 1 goal after the PP expired, forwards lost and chasing the puck and left the mainstreet wide open on the DeAngelo goal, and Zadorov not playing the pass well and letting the puck go under him. A lot of things that need to be cleaned up.

Spectacular fashion happens to every team, high danger and great chances happen because of breakdowns all of the time. Break downs also happen that don't result in anything happening because there are a lot of conditions that are required for a chance to actually materialize.

Heck, look at this game on the flyers side... we had a 2-0, multiple 2 on 1's, Anderssons good chance at the side of the net, Mangiapane had a clean shot from the hashmarks.. many more. The flames, statistically, actually place near the top of the league in a lot of "defensive" metrics (All situations - SA - 2nd best / SCA = 8th best / HDCA - 6th best / CF% - 2nd best / xGA 5th best....). Are these perfect metrics? No of course not. Are they directionally, relevant? In my opinion, they paint a picture that relative to other teams, we don't give up that much or at least as much as people think. Of course we can cherry pick each goal and say WOW look at that breakdown, but saying that doesn't happen to other teams is frankly, wrong, and unless someone can show me every video clip of every chance for every team and actually prove our chances are in deed worse, I'm going to have to stick with the imperfect metrics.

What is interesting relating to goaltending, is that the flames actually have one of the higher HDSV% in the league at almost 83%. This would naturally lead us to believe we SHOULD have good goaltending, but what that tells me, is our goalies are more prone to letting in shots from areas of the ice with typically higher SV% . This aligns with us having the 5th lowest SV% at about 88.7% (ALL SIT). Basically what I take from it is that the Flames actually aren't that abnormal in terms of breakdowns/defensively but they do happen. They also are near the bottom in goaltending, and potentially near the bottom of the league in terms of goals that probably shouldn't go in at all (based on middling to high HDSV%, and piss poor OVERALL SV%).

TLDR - poor goaltending is definitely one of (not the only) leading causes of where this team is and Markstrom is statistically having his worst year in the his career as a starter, and to me its not because we are weak defensively he has just been bad this year overall with some patches of greatness thrown in.

From a playoff perspective, I am curious why people even want to make it? Does this team as constructed with its goaltending give you confidence that they can win a game in the playoffs, let alone a series? I wouldn't be giving any futures to TRY and make the playoffs. The players have laid their own path. I say since we are basically stuck with the contracts, lets have another offseason with the same core, and take a hard look at goaltending in the offseason, maybe acquire another scorer, and give it another go next year. This year, play it out and if we make it that's awesome, if we don't then we don't but we cant really at this point change where we are going to be in the standings which is likely right in the middle (realistically not going to go on a huge slide or winning streak at this point).

[Mindtravellee]

At this point I'm expecting another Monahan fiasco.

Season ends, Markstrom has been carrying something since preseason and didn't have surgery. Wasted year

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

At this point I'm expecting another Monahan fiasco.

Season ends, Markstrom has been carrying something since preseason and didn't have surgery. Wasted year

That doesn’t explain the Oilers series, and that’s where his game fell apart. I sincerely doubt there is an injury. Given his performance, his position, and his overall incredibly poor play - they would have shut him down.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

At this point I'm expecting another Monahan fiasco.

Season ends, Markstrom has been carrying something since preseason and didn't have surgery. Wasted year

Not sure any surgical procedure can fix confidence and a borken heart.

[combustiblefuel]

Went on a run to start the season . Then Sutter changed the lines to what we have now .

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BlueCharlton

From a playoff perspective, I am curious why people even want to make it? Does this team as constructed with its goaltending give you confidence that they can win a game in the playoffs, let alone a series? I wouldn't be giving any futures to TRY and make the playoffs. The players have laid their own path. I say since we are basically stuck with the contracts, lets have another offseason with the same core, and take a hard look at goaltending in the offseason, maybe acquire another scorer, and give it another go next year. This year, play it out and if we make it that's awesome, if we don't then we don't but we cant really at this point change where we are going to be in the standings which is likely right in the middle (realistically not going to go on a huge slide or winning streak at this point).

Because the entire point is to get in and give yourself a chance. The Flames are either barely making the playoffs or barely missing the playoffs and their draft pick won't change much at all. I'll take the playoff games.

I agree I don't want them as big buyers at the TDL. Rather see what next year brings and go from there. But playoffs or no playoffs? In the Flames position you take playoffs all day long.

[topfiverecords]

For the love of god could Markstrom’s agent tweet something already ffs.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not to be a total downer but given what we've seen to this point I would be legitimately surprised if they went on a run.

I think we’ve all thought/said this about a dozen times this season.
It’s not happening sadly, not with a poor PP and the worst goalie in the league as your starter.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Markstrom goes on his knees at any sign of a shot, and then he stays on his knees until the Flames get the puck out to centre ice. If he stood up more, there wouldn't be much to shoot at.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

So the team couldn't score on a 2 on 0, or a breakaway. Went 0 for 4 on the PP.

Multiple warts on this team this season. But still time to play as well as they can.

[Barnet Flame]

I can’t believe we are watching the same goalie that posted 7 (seven) shut outs by the end of November last season.

This decline is so mind bottling, it puts Huberdeau in the shade.

[ReinhartonD]

I remember being pumped when we beat out the Oilers to sign Markstrom--finally the goaltending was solved. Now I wonder what a buyout would cost.

More and more I'm feeling like it's better to have a couple of guys on short-term, manageable contracts give you at least league-average goaltending and then spend the money on making sure the guys in front of them keep the high-dangers chances down. Whether it's Murray, Bobrovsky, or Jack Campbell, we see so many other examples besides Markie of big contracts aging badly quickly, and it makes me wonder if guys like Vasilevskiy are almost unicorns.

Maybe Markstrom will figure it out--I wonder how much goalie coaching plays into this? I don't believe the Oilers broke him--but there's something up with the mental part of his game.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Wings won Cups with guys like Osgood

Goalies are both over and under rated

A select few make a material difference

[Lanny_McDonald]

Was concerned that the Oilers series had broken Markstrom and he had gone full Tommy Salo. He's surpassed Salo is spectacular fashion. Future goaltenders losing their ability to stop pucks will be referred to as going full Jacob Markstrom.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Markstrom goes on his knees at any sign of a shot, and then he stays on his knees until the Flames get the puck out to centre ice. If he stood up more, there wouldn't be much to shoot at.

Man I wish critics wouldn’t exaggerate. I actually thought Markstrom was standing a lot, trying to see around screens, and I worried he wasn’t set. The third goal was soft - he was just beat. The 4th he could have stopped the pass across possibly. But only with his toe, and I think if he did that, the guy was left so alone by the D, he would have stuffed in a rebound anyway. I have no idea how he was so wide open.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Wings won Cups with guys like Osgood

Goalies are both over and under rated

A select few make a material difference

Or maybe Chris Osgood was just underrated.

Over his first stint in Detroit (94-01) he had a .909 save percentage.

That was good for 8th best in the NHL over that time - tied with Ed Belfour.

Even all time great teams require good goaltending to win the cup.

Goalies make all the difference. You don't need a guy who can steal you a series, but you need guys who won't lose you a series. Right now the Flames don't even have a guy that can get them into the playoffs.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Wings won Cups with guys like Osgood

Goalies are both over and under rated

A select few make a material difference

I’d say the Avs win without Keumper. Probably the Bolts without Vasilevsky though he’s elite as they come.

Good goalies help weak teams. Dallas was nothing without Oettinger last year but then again, they lost in round one anyway. There’s no way Calgary goes anywhere in 04 without Kipper. Montreal was a crap team and went to the finals with Price. Markstrom and Vladar were great all last year and Calgary won. Until Markstrom stopped being great and then Calgary lost.

[memphusk]

4 goals on the first 20 shots. He's a bum.