"Should the Flames call up Dustin Wolf?" Hockey News

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

What?

I think Vladar has been full marks for his good record

To give marky the benefit of the doubt and then claim the opposite of Vladar and call it an opportunity to sell high is hysterical

I think it is simply that Markstrom is underperforming expectations and Vladar is exceeding them but Vladar's stats are okay but not good. I am on board with win and your in but I don't really trust either in a playoff run right now. Vladar hasn't really stolen games but I also don't think he has given any away like Markstrom though.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think it is simply that Markstrom is underperforming expectations and Vladar is exceeding them but Vladar's stats are okay but not good. I am on board with win and your in but I don't really trust either in a playoff run right now. Vladar hasn't really stolen games but I also don't think he has given any away like Markstrom though.

Not giving games away is a great sign. Why does our goalie need to steal games?

13 games straight he didn't give a game away in the format that the playoffs would follow

If goalies need to steal a series for us to win in the playoffs, then we shouldn't be there

Vladar is good enough to hold the fort IF the team is going

[timun]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

All cup winning goalies in the past 50 years were acquired via draft, signing (with no prior NHL experience), or trade. Every single one. [...] No UFA goalie with prior NHL experience has ever won the cup.

Unrestricted free agency didn't even exist until 1995, so your "past 50 years" benchmark is an unrealistic exaggeration. No #### no UFA goalie won a Cup prior to 1995.

That said, I guess we're just conveniently forgetting Belfour in Dallas and Osgood in '08.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

How many 21 year old goalies have won 3 straight(soon to be 4) goalie of the year awards and didn't get a sniff at the NHL?

Hint...none

My fear is the Flames will over cook the kid in the minors, Ken Dryden once said goalies need to grow with the competition in order to maximize their potential.

He needs to be in the NHL at the very least next season.

How many 21 year old goalies have won 3 straight (soon to be 4) goalie of the year awards?

I am going to guess none, so the sample size of the point you are trying to make is non-existent.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Vladar really hasn't been all that good. A real sell-high candidate if there ever was one.

You don't think that GM's knows what Sutter knows, that Vladar, while winning, hasn't been that great.

There is a reason that Sutter keeps going back to Marky, as he knows Marky at he best is way better than Vladar.

If the Flames are going to make any noise in the playoffs, Marky will need to be the goalie.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How many 21 year old goalies have won 3 straight (soon to be 4) goalie of the year awards?

I am going to guess none, so the sample size of the point you are trying to make is non-existent.

I doubt that winning the goalie of the year award in juniors and or/AHL isn't worth much in the grand scheme of things in rating his overall chance of succeeding in the NHL.

The AHL list is particularly unimpressive.

Wolf is a very good prospect, but is not a lead pipe cinch to be a star in the NHL. But you can say the same thing about any goalie prospect.

Carter Hart also won 3 straight.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Not giving games away is a great sign. Why does our goalie need to steal games?

13 games straight he didn't give a game away in the format that the playoffs would follow

If goalies need to steal a series for us to win in the playoffs, then we shouldn't be there

Vladar is good enough to hold the fort IF the team is going

I think if he and Makrstrom's games played were swapped the Flames record would be about the same because Vladar has looked okay but he hasn't really excelled in any of them. He usually lets in a softie a well.

[GioforPM]

Hart is an interesting comparison. Great junior career. Almost no AHL career. Good NHL start, and then crumbled badly in his third year.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

People having open dialogue about the goalies we have doesn’t make them “sympathizers”. Vladar has started games that backups start, pretty much all season.

If there’s one thing about the goalie conversation especially, but also many other conversations surrounding this team I don’t understand, it’s the over reliance on language like “sympathizers,” “apologists,” “fanboys,” and “homers.”

We’re all cheering for the same team and all hoping all the players perform well. People are insistent on making conversations about individual players on the team we’re all fans of as adversarial and “us vs them” as possible. So weird.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You don't think that GM's knows what Sutter knows, that Vladar, while winning, hasn't been that great.

There is a reason that Sutter keeps going back to Marky, as he knows Marky at he best is way better than Vladar.

If the Flames are going to make any noise in the playoffs, Marky will need to be the goalie.

I would love to see Vladar turn into a starter here, but he hasn't shown the ability to do so yet, and that would mean being able to start 5,6,7 games in a row at minimum without having those games that we are all collectively hammering on Markstrom for this year.

It's an entirely different animal being the everyday guy compared to a once a week backup. If it were that simple, I'm pretty sure the Flames would have switched over to Vladar a long time ago. Maybe he gets more of a runway over these next 10 games to grab the ball and run with it - he needs to be ready for it if so. This is one of those times in a players career where a starting job could be won if he is clearly able to elevate his play.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

People having open dialogue about the goalies we have doesn’t make them “sympathizers”. Vladar has started games that backups start, pretty much all season.

At least get your facts straight

Vladar has been starting against the tougher competition for a while now, with the exception of the most recent trip where markstrom got the Rangers and vladar the wings

Vladar has gone toe to toe with playoff caliber teams, particularly over his 13 game point streak and held his own.

[calgarywinning]

If you need points and you look at the goaltenders stats, it's criminal not to run with Vladar.

Would be nice if Wolf were to attract some goaltending coaching talent here in Calgary to work with this player.

[gamesaver]

Why is this org still so clueless when it comes to goaltending?

You would think after the Hiller era, the Elliot fiasko or Mike Smith' nosedive they have learned their lesson and won't be signing any more 30y+ UFA goalies for big money contracts. But no. Lets sign Markstrom, a guy with like two elite season in lifelong NHL career. Mostly played for non-playoff teams with low pressure, decent individual numbers but mediocre win /lose ratio. Let's sign that guy for freaking 6 million dollars a year. Surely nothing can go wrong, right?

Now you have this situation when you fight for 8th playoff spot. Your best goalie in the ranks cannot go up because the starter guy sucks, but has NMC and the backup does well, in fact is the reason why Flames are still in contention, but it's his spot that is in question now. All because of this management.

What a terrible, terrible management.

Delusional board thought they are going "all-in" signing Markstrom with only 2 remaining seasons for Gaudreau and Tkachuk. But why didn't they protect Giordano at expansion draft then? I mean, that should be a no-brainer, if you want to win a cup within next 2 seasons, you keep your franchise dman and captain, right? No.... And you don't even go all-in for a goalie. You just sign the most expansive UFA on the market, give him a NMC and call it a homerun. Sorry but my brain hurts thinking about it. If you wanna throw 6 million at goaltending and win the cup, atleast trade for one. Sell farm if needed. Just not this half-ass joke of a solution all over again. Like how many times do we have to see this happen?

I hope this is the last time and Wolf is the next Kipper. Found a gem at 7th round, what a miracle pick. Call him up. But if you screw even this one Flames, I am done with you.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

People having open dialogue about the goalies we have doesn’t make them “sympathizers”. Vladar has started games that backups start, pretty much all season.

Looking at Both Goalies last 10 games:
Vladar 7-1-2 record with 0.893 sv%
He has played 6 games against teams ahead of us in the standings, and in playoff positions. 2 were against top 5 teams, 2 between 6 and 10, and 2 between 11 and 15. He went 4-0-2 in those 6 games.

Markstrom 2-4-3 record with 0.879 sv%
He has played 3 games against teams ahead of is in the standings, and in playoff positions. None vs a top 5 team, 2 against teams 6 to 10, and 1 against a team 11-15th. Markstrom is 0-2-1 in those 3 games.

Neither goalie has been even league average to this point, but Vladar tends to be better in the close games when it comes to making timely saves. That's what this team needs right now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If there’s one thing about the goalie conversation especially, but also many other conversations surrounding this team I don’t understand, it’s the over reliance on language like “sympathizers,” “apologists,” “fanboys,” and “homers.”

We’re all cheering for the same team and all hoping all the players perform well. People are insistent on making conversations about individual players on the team we’re all fans of as adversarial and “us vs them” as possible. So weird.

Tribalism has become so pervasive in our culture that we are now getting tribalism within tribes!

[Heavy Jack]

If you’re going to ‘over ripen’ a prospect a goalie prospect is probably the best one to do it with because it means they are still logging minutes that they potentially wouldn’t be once called up to the next level. Leave Wolf down there for the rest of the season, the Wranglers have a legit shot at winning it all and Wolf is the main part of that legit shot. I’d much rather him play the starting role now then battle with Vlad or Marky for the starting role on the big club with about 30’percent of the season left.

Get through the rest of this year and then look where everything is at this off-season; I think it’s in the flames best interests to have Marky find even a little bit of the reg season form he had last year so the flames can try and flip him in the offseason and run with a Vlad/Wolf 1A/1B tandem. No sense or reason to call up Wolf atm though I agree he has little left to prove at the AHL level.

[PeteMoss]

If the Flames can trade Markstrom this off-season - they should run full tilt to accept it.

The guy is at the age when goalies tend to fall apart and he looks like he's falling apart. Getting out from under his contact would be a giant win.

I'd be shocked if the Flames didn't anticipate a buyout as part of Markstrom's contact when they signed it. Its not a ton of salary bonus so completely good for a buyout. If you can trade him now.. you should run through a brick wall to accept it.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Looking at Both Goalies last 10 games:
Vladar 7-1-2 record with 0.893 sv%
He has played 6 games against teams ahead of us in the standings, and in playoff positions. 2 were against top 5 teams, 2 between 6 and 10, and 2 between 11 and 15. He went 4-0-2 in those 6 games.

Markstrom 2-4-3 record with 0.879 sv%
He has played 3 games against teams ahead of is in the standings, and in playoff positions. None vs a top 5 team, 2 against teams 6 to 10, and 1 against a team 11-15th. Markstrom is 0-2-1 in those 3 games.

Neither goalie has been even league average to this point, but Vladar tends to be better in the close games when it comes to making timely saves. That's what this team needs right now.

Sums it up right there

I don't know where some of these posters are getting their narratives from

I think Vladar had been strong (for the same reasons that posters argue that markstrom hasn't been terrible), but obviously both haven't been up to snuff by the numbers

The difference between the two in one goal situations (someone outlined it in the last week) is where the distinction lies, and why there is such a contrast in their records

Vladar tightens up with the game on the line, Markstrom continues to bleed goals

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If the Flames can trade Markstrom this off-season - they should run full tilt to accept it.

The guy is at the age when goalies tend to fall apart and he looks like he's falling apart. Getting out from under his contact would be a giant win.

I'd be shocked if the Flames didn't anticipate a buyout as part of Markstrom's contact when they signed it. Its straight salary so completely good for a buyout. If you can trade him now.. you should run through a brick wall to accept it.

Even though it seems high, most teams are spending 7-10% of the cap space they have on goalies. The Flames are right in that range, so you can live with it in a sense that it is what it is, even if the top dog is being outperformed to an extent.

I would say the odds are that Markstrom returns to a more serviceable form next year, but who knows what that looks like in terms of a potential platoon with Wolf or Vladar. Neither of the current goalies are really inspiring confidence with their numbers, so I would struggle with the logic of bringing both back next season and that really leaves Vladar as the only trade option with Markstoms contract status.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Going forward next year with markstrom and a rookie with no experience... I mean I have faith in wolf, but I'd still have to say that would be quite a precarious situation in net

Only way dealing Vladar makes sense is if we go full tear down or Markstrom shows notable improvement before the year is out