What to do with Huberdeau?

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah the Flames top of the roster have really struggled if that's what you want me to admit.

I didn't just go back two years to grab Lindholm's big year, though I went back three.

Think the numbers stand on their own, thanks.

Not trying to get you to admit anything. Simply saying I think Hopkins is in the same league when it comes to his overall play as Lindholm, by using stats from the season currently being played. I’m not even saying Hopkins is “better”. I know that Lindholm is a good player, we could use a guy like him on the oilers.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Not trying to get you to admit anything. Simply saying I think Hopkins is in the same league when it comes to his overall play as Lindholm, by using stats from the season currently being played. I’m not even saying Hopkins is “better”. I know that Lindholm is a good player, we could use a guy like him on the oilers.

but over three years ... five on five they're not even close.

that was my whole point.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

So coincidentally, Lucic just happened to play with Huberdeau when he was at his best for an entire month? We’re talking about hundreds of shifts here, Lucic definitely had a big part in helping Huberdeau’s increased production.

It’s not about “dumbing down” Huberdeau, it’s about insulating him with guys who do things he’s not good at. Huberdeau has also proven in the past that he doesn’t need great playmakers or finishers on his line to be productive. You don’t need 3 creative playmakers on one line, there’s only one puck, Huberdeau can by himself can be the primary playmaking quarterback on his line.

Since Huberdeau gets so many ozone starts anyway, what he really needs right now is a guy who can do the dirty work, cycle the puck around and get the puck to him with some time and space so he has more opportunities to use his vision and find open linemates.

Like I’ve said numerous times already, Lucic obviously isn’t the ideal linemate for Huberdeau. But so far, he’s been one of the best options so far since he’s played with seemingly everybody and hasn’t found chemistry. I mean Jonathan has played with the team’s current top point getters in 2 separate stints this season and they were awful together. There was no creativity or production happening there. It’s not always offense with offense with offense and I think Darryl knows this, that’s why he put Lucic and Huberdeau together.

What Huberdeau needs is someone who can get open, take a pass, and finish. Lucic is none of those things. Having Lucic with Huberdeau only guarantees that Huberdeau will continue to under-produce.

No, you don't need 3 creative players together, but you do need talent to play with talent. Having a guy with dead hands playing with your top offensive player is as counter-productive as it gets. And Sutter didn't have Lucic with him because he thought Lucic was the answer, hew had him there to send the team a message.

[Enoch Root]

Comparing RNH to Lindholm, LOL.

Put Lindholm in RNH's spot and he is easily an 80 point player.

Put RNH in Lindholm's spot and he is a 40 point player.

There is no comparison

[memphusk]

His name is The Tenderness.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Comparing RNH to Lindholm, LOL.

Put Lindholm in RNH's spot and he is easily an 80 point player.

Put RNH in Lindholm's spot and he is a 40 point player.

There is no comparison

What lindholm is continuing to do offensively on this iteration of the roster speaks volumes about the kind of player he is

I don't even think it's one of the better seasons for him and he's still flirting with a PPG

RNH struggles to keep pace with Backlund offensively if he played elsewhere. Pure complementary player

I'm disappointed Monahan didn't cave his face in when he had the chance

[iamca]

Didn’t see this posted anywhere and I didn’t want to get torched for starting a new thread.

The title says it all:
The Astronomical Declines of Flames’ Huberdeau and Kadri


https://thehockeywriters.com/astrono...berdeau-kadri/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What Huberdeau needs is someone who can get open, take a pass, and finish. Lucic is none of those things. Having Lucic with Huberdeau only guarantees that Huberdeau will continue to under-produce.

No, you don't need 3 creative players together, but you do need talent to play with talent. Having a guy with dead hands playing with your top offensive player is as counter-productive as it gets. And Sutter didn't have Lucic with him because he thought Lucic was the answer, hew had him there to send the team a message.

Actually, what Huberdeau needs is someone who can create time, space and separation for him so he can make utilize more of his skillset. You don't think every guy who has played on his line have been trying to get open for him? Kind of hard to do that though when you're continually being defended man to man and you're not threatening the opposition to change their structure.

Lastly, you think Sutter would purposely make his team worse just to send a message? This is a guy who hates to lose and is always trying to win under any circumstance. If he did do it just to send a message, why did he keep Lucic with Huberdeau for over a month? Wouldn't sending a message be a shift, a period, or a game or 2? If he kept him up there for over a month which was the longest stint he had with any 2 linemates, then it's probably more likely that it was working according to the coach.

EDIT: Even right now, just heard in the pre-game, Darryl just took a shot at the Huberdeau-Kadri-Pelletier line for not being productive enough lately. Obviously the coach doesn't think this all skill line has been good enough.

[FlamesAddiction]

The weird thing about Huberdeau is that his shots and shot attempts are way down, and Sutter preaches shooting. It's hard to blame Sutter for that.

[powderjunkie]

This is actually an optimistic bump. There's been lots of talk about Huby's decline being unprecedented. I don't think that's totally true in a broader sense (though 115 to ~55 will almost certainly be a non-injury record):

Huberdeau had 346pts in his previous 286 gp. Currently on pace for 55 pts.


Teemu Selanne
350pts in 300gp (final 12gp were with SJS).
First full season in SJS = 54pts (age 31). Then 64 pts and even 32pts (78gp) in 2003-04 with COL.

The post lockout rule changes and returning to ANA saw him bounce back to 90 and 94 pt seasons and an elite twilight to his career.

Ron Francis
340pts in 310 gp (final 14 were with PIT)
First full season in PIT was 54pts in 70gp (age 28)

He was ppg+ for the next 6 seasons in PIT

Jeremy Roenick
384pts in 339gp (incl. 69pts in 72gp in his first season with PHX)
His second season in PHX was 56pts in 79gp (age 28)

He bounced back to a ~75pt player for another 3-4 seasons


So there's at least 3 great players who hit speed bumps soon after changing teams, but bounced back to roughly their expected production.

There are a bunch of less dramatic examples:

Denis Savard went from 1.25 ppg in his last year in CHI to 0.84 in his first year in MTL (age 29). Modest improvement for a few years thereafter.

Jari Kurri 1.19ppg age 29 in EDM to 0.82 first year in LAK; bounced back to ~ppg for 2 more years.

Doug Weight 1.10 age 30 EMD to 0.80 first year STL; then a couple better years.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The weird thing about Huberdeau is that his shots and shot attempts are way down, and Sutter preaches shooting. It's hard to blame Sutter for that.

As we can all see with this version of whatever the Flames are...shot volume means nothing. You can play this stupid east/west, dump and chase, shoot lots, hope for a rebound forever and a day. It obviously does not work for this team.

[Flamesfan05]

I remembered Huberdeau or someone said he would make Lindholm a 50 goal scorer


What went wrong?

Lindholm is a top line talent?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

This is actually an optimistic bump. There's been lots of talk about Huby's decline being unprecedented. I don't think that's totally true in a broader sense (though 115 to ~55 will almost certainly be a non-injury record):

Huberdeau had 346pts in his previous 286 gp. Currently on pace for 55 pts.


Teemu Selanne
350pts in 300gp (final 12gp were with SJS).
First full season in SJS = 54pts (age 31). Then 64 pts and even 32pts (78gp) in 2003-04 with COL.

The post lockout rule changes and returning to ANA saw him bounce back to 90 and 94 pt seasons and an elite twilight to his career.

Ron Francis
340pts in 310 gp (final 14 were with PIT)
First full season in PIT was 54pts in 70gp (age 28)

He was ppg+ for the next 6 seasons in PIT

Jeremy Roenick
384pts in 339gp (incl. 69pts in 72gp in his first season with PHX)
His second season in PHX was 56pts in 79gp (age 28)

He bounced back to a ~75pt player for another 3-4 seasons


So there's at least 3 great players who hit speed bumps soon after changing teams, but bounced back to roughly their expected production.

There are a bunch of less dramatic examples:

Denis Savard went from 1.25 ppg in his last year in CHI to 0.84 in his first year in MTL (age 29). Modest improvement for a few years thereafter.

Jari Kurri 1.19ppg age 29 in EDM to 0.82 first year in LAK; bounced back to ~ppg for 2 more years.

Doug Weight 1.10 age 30 EMD to 0.80 first year STL; then a couple better years.

Not sure about the bounce back but Gaudreau has 55 points and is -25

Guys have bad years, especially in less than ideal situations

[McG]

Huberdeau is a great passer. He needs a shooter.

Put Huberdeau in a position to be successful and he will be successful.

That’s on the coach and GM.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not sure about the bounce back but Gaudreau has 55 points and is -25

Guys have bad years, especially in less than ideal situations

It must be just coincidence that all these guys have career years right before free agency and then are total garbage after they sign guaranteed multi-generational wealth contracts.

[kyuss275]

Imagine if all hubby needed was to be playing on his natural wing. He only did it for 10 years though. Could be a big adjustment.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The easiest solution with him is get him away from Darryl Sutter.

Guy was a superstar the last 5 years comes to Calgary and was told hes another Trevor Lewis.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by McG

Huberdeau is a great passer. He needs a shooter.

Put Huberdeau in a position to be successful and he will be successful.

That’s on the coach and GM.

Flames just so happens to have two really good ones sitting one line away.

[flames_fan_down_under]

In fairness Selanne did lead his team in goals on that down year, Roenick was 2nd on his team in points in his down year and Gaudreau leads his team in scoring right now. I appreciate the effort at looking for optimism though. We are stuck with Huberdeau so hopefully he can turn it around.

[McG]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Flames just so happens to have two really good ones sitting one line away.

So near and yet so far…