What to do with Huberdeau?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Nugent-Hopkins.

Hahaha hahahaha haha

Troll of the year!!!!

[Naitix]

Stone's shot on the point won't work for multiple reasons.

- Stone is a terrible passer, so you eliminate most of his danger due to his one dimensionality, other off wing one time players aren't like that
- Having an effective one timer goes beyond being able to shoot the puck hard, first of all Stone can't even hit the net most of the time which is a killer on the PP
- You need to be able to shift your weight properly and be good at adjusting your positioning based on the pass that is coming to you so that you can one time it effectively. Just watch what effective players do in those positions, they are not stationary, Stone does not have the tools to make it work. From our system I think Coronato does a very good job of this.
- If you notice, the times that Stone has a good one timer is when he skates into a puck. I would not be surprised if he has a good slapshot because he practiced by himself just taking one timers. Being good at one timing the puck of the pass on the powerplay where you need to find open ice is a harder task that Stone is not good at.

All of these result in Stone being a one dimensional, mostly stationary slapshot threat that is easy to defend, meaning he is not an effective powerplay option. It only works if the other teams does not know what Stone can do, but everyone knows it now

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

To me it's been more that it feels like they really aren't leveraging Huberdeau and Lindholm enough on the PP.

Before they changed the units up you had both Lindholm and Huberdeau down low generally. And the PP running through Kadri, Toffoli, and Andersson.

And honestly I'm just not sure how that made sense to anyone. Huberdeau as the passer and Lindholm as the bumper/shooter felt like a no brainer.

Now the players need to execute too but the set up has felt off all season.

The biggest problem is that they don't have that "it" player who can gain the zone reliably on the PP and force PKers to cheat. Both units have the feeling of players who simply don't want the job, or are unable to hang onto the puck and make plays.

This has been the biggest let down for me with Huberdeau this season. I expected him to by dynamic and assertive with the man advantage and he has been anything but that. I can't recall more than 1-2 plays he's made all year have that impressed me, and how often did elite players like Gaudreau and Tkachuk do this the last 2 seasons under the same staff?

You can't blame Sutter or the coaches for his inability to create and execute on the PP. That is solely on the player given they made it work pretty well in previous seasons.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The powerplay is hard to figure out because it could be system or it could be guys just not meshing but we have a guy who has put up numbers on the power play and and Kadri was good last season as well.

They just seem stuck in their spots on the ice they don't rotate much and stay stagnant and make passes like that. If they are more aggressive with the puck by moving down towards the circles hard and making that pass or the defeceman coming down while the guy on the flank has it they could create a but more chaos.

RIght now its a cross ice pass and whiff or a pass fumbled a shot misses the net.

Be like Tyler Toffoli he gets the puck and doesn't immediately just fire, he actually moves his feet and waits it out and gets a shot off on net and most recently he is scoring.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Hahaha hahahaha haha

Troll of the year!!!!

RNH: 591 points, 773 games, 0.76PPG, 29 years old
Zebulon: 497 points, 716 games, 0.69 PPG, 28 years old

They're pretty freaking comparable. Definitely not a laughable comparison - and RNH has 63 points in 54 games this year to Lindholm's 48 in 53.

Perhaps we're overrating Lindholm? Or underrating RNH...it's one of the two. Is it a team success thing? RNH has won more playoff rounds than Lindholm has...I don't see the reason to laugh off the comparison.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

RNH: 591 points, 773 games, 0.76PPG, 29 years old
Zebulon: 497 points, 716 games, 0.69 PPG, 28 years old

They're pretty freaking comparable. Definitely not a laughable comparison - and RNH has 63 points in 54 games this year to Lindholm's 48 in 53.

Perhaps we're overrating Lindholm? Or underrating RNH...it's one of the two. Is it a team success thing? RNH has won more playoff rounds than Lindholm has...I don't see the reason to laugh off the comparison.

Last three years five on five

Goals/60

Lindholm 1.01
NH 0.58

Assists/60

Lindholm 1.32
NH 0.87

Points/60

Lindholm 2.34
NH 1.46

On Ice 5 on 5

xGF60

Lindholm 2.8
NH 2.56

xGA60

Lindholm 2.27
NH 2.51

Not even close five on five ... I know which one I'd pick!

Two elite offensive players dragging one guy up by powerplay points

[Paulie Walnuts]

That's the Oiler way of looking at OMG points.

Lindholm came in 2nd to one of the best defensive forwards the NHL seen last season, I don't see RNH plumping up McGm and Crysaddles defensive rankings like Lindholm did for Tkachuk and Gaudreau.

His points are inflated this season due to a historic powerplay in Edmonton.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

RNH: 591 points, 773 games, 0.76PPG, 29 years old
Zebulon: 497 points, 716 games, 0.69 PPG, 28 years old

They're pretty freaking comparable. Definitely not a laughable comparison - and RNH has 63 points in 54 games this year to Lindholm's 48 in 53.

Perhaps we're overrating Lindholm? Or underrating RNH...it's one of the two. Is it a team success thing? RNH has won more playoff rounds than Lindholm has...I don't see the reason to laugh off the comparison.

He is a PP princess. Oilers fans and you might be the only ones rating him on par with Lindholm.

[Jason14h]

Why do we always discount PP goals like they don’t count?

Is a 5 on 5 goal worth more then a PP goal ? I must have missed that rule change

Sure wish we had some more PP goals this year !

(And yes Lindholm is better then RNH- but I don’t think he’s massively better)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why do we always discount PP goals like they don’t count?

Is a 5 on 5 goal worth more then a PP goal ? I must have missed that rule change

Sure wish we had some more PP goals this year !

(And yes Lindholm is better then RNH- but I don’t think he’s massively better)

Who is saying that?

The guy is riding shotgun with two PP beasts ... that has to be taken into account when it comes to player value/worth

[Jason14h]

Last I checked Lindholm played with two pretty good players last season even strength . Two players who helped to create the best 5/5 line in 2 decades

Might be why his 5/5 numbers are good?

RNH plays on the leagues best PP with two superstars. But he’s still a part of the success of that PP (and actually has shown good points when playing with them 5/5)

Playing with good players is always a boon for another good player

I would take Lindholm over RNH , but it don’t think the gap is huge and actually think RNH is a bit underrated

[HighLifeMan]

Honestly - What does RNH do well outside of ride third string on an elite PP unit?

His five on five production is below average to downright bad at best given his minutes
He can't win faceoffs to save his life
He's not physical
He's not a shutdown guy
He struggles to break even in terms of possession at even strength

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Last I checked Lindholm played with two pretty good players last season even strength . Two players who helped to create the best 5/5 line in 2 decades

Might be why his 5/5 numbers are good?

RNH plays on the leagues best PP with two superstars. But he’s still a part of the success of that PP (and actually has shown good points when playing with them 5/5)

Playing with good players is always a boon for another good player

I would take Lindholm over RNH , but it don’t think the gap is huge and actually think RNH is a bit underrated

Factor for sure ... but I'm not saying anything contrary to that.

Both players play with good players, but when a bigger percentage comes from the powerplay you're not part of driving five on five play as much as playing on the league's best powerplay in this time period.

And Nugent Hopkins has played 605 minutes with McDavid and 570 with Draisaitl five on five in the last three years.

Not as much as Lindholm with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, but then he only had the top ten scorer Gaudreau and Tkachuk for one of those seasons.

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Factor for sure ... but I'm not saying anything contrary to that.

Both players play with good players, but when a bigger percentage comes from the powerplay you're not part of driving five on five play as much as playing on the league's best powerplay in this time period.

And Nugent Hopkins has played 605 minutes with McDavid and 570 with Draisaitl five on five in the last three years.

Not as much as Lindholm with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, but then he only had the top ten scorer Gaudreau and Tkachuk for one of those seasons.

If you’re going to be fair about allotting so much credit to the players he has ice time with on the power play, then you have to also look at who he plays with 5 on 5. Nuge centers the 3rd line and has had all kinds of different wingers along the way. Lindholm is considered your top line center and has the best wingers on your team. The power play is part of the game, and if Hopkins is on a historic pp then he deserves some credit for it being historic. It’s 5 guys out there, not two. Without Hopkins I don’t think the power play is nearly as good. If the jerseys were reversed, this would be a totally different discussion.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Who is saying that?

The guy is riding shotgun with two PP beasts ... that has to be taken into account when it comes to player value/worth

Anson Carter comes to mind

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

McDavid made Nuggy Bopkins a lot of extra dough on his last contract. Decent complementary piece. Probably a pretty average player anywhere else

Oilers extending him 8 years was dumb

I do look forward to the drop off in the post-mcdavid era

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

If you’re going to be fair about allotting so much credit to the players he has ice time with on the power play, then you have to also look at who he plays with 5 on 5. Nuge centers the 3rd line and has had all kinds of different wingers along the way. Lindholm is considered your top line center and has the best wingers on your team. The power play is part of the game, and if Hopkins is on a historic pp then he deserves some credit for it being historic. It’s 5 guys out there, not two. Without Hopkins I don’t think the power play is nearly as good. If the jerseys were reversed, this would be a totally different discussion.

I did.

Have his ice time with Draisaitl and McDavid listed.

But when you factor in the amount of time that those two play together, that elevates him to the second line doesn't it?

Lindholm plays on the top line in the last couple of years, but has shut down center defensive metrics and was 2nd for the Selke trophy this year.

I don't need to be Flames goggled to see a 100% complete 200 foot player that produces five on five vs a guy that has been average at best, still not seen as a defensive player, and getting points on the powerplay.

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I did.

Have his ice time with Draisaitl and McDavid listed.

But when you factor in the amount of time that those two play together, that elevates him to the second line doesn't it?

Lindholm plays on the top line in the last couple of years, but has shut down center defensive metrics and was 2nd for the Selke trophy this year.

I don't need to be Flames goggled to see a 100% complete 200 foot player that produces five on five vs a guy that has been average at best, still not seen as a defensive player, and getting points on the powerplay.

This year 5 on 5.. RNH 14G, 27P +8… Lindholm 8G, 32P +3

The conversation was whether Hopkins was even comparable. Just with those 5on5 stats from this year alone, he is. That’s without counting the power play. Which is a mind boggling thing in itself. The power play is part of the game.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

This year 5 on 5.. RNH 14G, 27P +8… Lindholm 8G, 32P +3

The conversation was whether Hopkins was even comparable. Just with those 5on5 stats from this year alone, he is. That’s without counting the power play. Which is a mind boggling thing in itself. The power play is part of the game.

Yeah the Flames top of the roster have really struggled if that's what you want me to admit.

I didn't just go back two years to grab Lindholm's big year, though I went back three.

Think the numbers stand on their own, thanks.

[cam_wmh]

nm