What to do with Huberdeau?

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Naitix

Put Huberdeau back with Lindholm and Pelletier on the wing. Huberdeau sets up Kadri for a good shot opportunity multiple times per game, he is just does not have the best shot. Lindholm should be able to finish more of those setups, and I think Pelletier would complement both of their games. The issue last time was that Huby and Toffoli are not forecheckers so Lindholm would have to take on that role, while now Pelletier is the forechecker and he starts many plays with his positioning and takeaways

Lindholm, being a centre should never be the main or even secondary forechecker. I agree this trio could be tried, but Pelletier or Huby would likely have to be the F1 and likely F2 on a forecheck.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Lindholm, being a centre should never be the main or even secondary forechecker. I agree this trio could be tried, but Pelletier or Huby would likely have to be the F1 and likely F2 on a forecheck.

Pelletier, though small, seems to be a decent forechecker. Huberdeau is as well - he wins his share of pucks if he can get there quickly enough.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The Lindholm disrespect is unbelievable as well. He did the majority of the dirty work on that line last season when everyone had dream seasons.

Sutter didn't give him and Huberdeau enough time to get going and I think Toffoli is the wrong winger for that line. Toffoli is the best plug and play player on this team you can put it him on any line and he will get his.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The Lindholm disrespect is unbelievable as well. He did the majority of the dirty work on that line last season when everyone had dream seasons.

Sutter didn't give him and Huberdeau enough time to get going and I think Toffoli is the wrong winger for that line. Toffoli is the best plug and play player on this team you can put it him on any line and he will get his.

I dunno about not enough time, but they played together when Lindholm wasn't in top form. I'd keep Pelletier with Huberdeau though. I think it's a good motivator for Huberdeau, plus Pelletier seems like he might actually blossom there.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It did not take Johnny a year.

The moment Johnny, Chucky, and Lindy got put together it clicked. That happened in Sutter’s 1st season back at the end of the season.

In 2019 the Flames topped the west and Johnny had 99 points or something.
But the results faltered when the games got hard after all star break, and they lost in the first round. Everyone questioned if the team was too soft and too free wheeling to win when it mattered.

The next year Johnny had 58 points in 70 games. He and the top line looked like they had never known how to score.

Then there was pandemic weirdness so I suppose we can read into that what we want.

IMO there was a least a whole season where the top players adapted. I don’t think the 13-28-19 line has a chance under Sutter if the growing pains hadn’t already happened.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames have the best center depth they have had in a long time. Lindholm is on pace for 74pts Kadri 61pts, Backlund 50pts. Huberdeau and Markstrom are the reasons this team is not 1st in the west. Even with one of them playing at last years level this team is first in the Pacific. 4-11 in OT if that record was reversed they would be first in the Pacific. One more save or one more goal would do this team wonders who have lost 20 of 32 1 goal games this year.

Huberdeau and Markstrom need to be better or this team is trending toward the 15th pick in the draft.

I dunno. To me those are not world beating numbers. You're paying Kadri $7MM and he gets 61 points?

Really? Yay?

Not 1 forward in the top 50 of scoring...! 50!

I don't know about this "centre depth". Seems very average to me.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I dunno. To me those are not world beating numbers. You're paying Kadri $7MM and he gets 61 points?

Really? Yay?

Not 1 forward in the top 50 of scoring...! 50!

I don't know about this "centre depth". Seems very average to me.

Please go ahead and show your work. You could be right but what second line centers average 60pts with players like Lucic and Pelletier on their line the entire season? How many 3rdnlkne centers are on pace for over 50pts? Maybe I am wrong but please prove it and give me some examples.

We do not have a truly elite top end team but the flames have decent depth especially if they can acquire a winger to add to the Kadri line to hopefully increase the overall point totals of that line. Flames are not top heavy at all but are deeper than they were last year.

Last years elite Flames had second line center Backlund finish with 39pts

[SuperMatt18]

And the problem with the teams counting stats is mostly the PP - they are 8th as a team in 5v5 GF. They were 7th last year so the drop isnt huge. And actually have more 5v5 goals than the Oilers and Leafs elite offensive teams.

And sure we have no players in the top 45 of 5v5 points but we have 7 guys in the top 100, in a league where you have "96" top line players. And all three centers in the top 70.

Lindholm - T-47
Backlund - T-54
Dube - T-54
Kadri - T-65
Toffoli- T-65
Coleman- T-82
Mangiapane- T-82

Huberdeau- T-124

So really at 5v5 the only top 9 foward on the team lacking has been Huberdeau, and then the Lucic/Pelletier/Lewis rotation.

The PP is a different story though - and honestly I'm not sure if thats the players or the coaches because there has been some weird PP usage this year.

[Erick Estrada]

It's likely on both players and coaches but having Lucic on the powerplay tips the balance to coaching.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's likely on both players and coaches but having Lucic on the powerplay tips the balance to coaching.

Huh?

Lucic is 17th on the team for players with 5 or more minutes of powerplay time at 14 seconds per game.

Not sure you tipped much there.

Last year he was 11th and the powerplay was great ... was that all him too!?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Huh?

Lucic is 17th on the team for players with 5 or more minutes of powerplay time at 14 seconds per game.

Not sure you tipped much there.

Last year he was 11th and the powerplay was great ... was that all him too!?

You're right. Coaching has been excellent.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Huh?

Lucic is 17th on the team for players with 5 or more minutes of powerplay time at 14 seconds per game.

Not sure you tipped much there.

Last year he was 11th and the powerplay was great ... was that all him too!?

I think this just further proves how dismal our PP has been and plays a huge factor in why the Flames just aren't good this year.

With how many 1 goal games we've lost, if the PP was better than 19% we'd be in a completely different spot. Sadly we've had no finish, and I think that's largely what this team is missing.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You're right. Coaching has been excellent.

Were you kidding and I misunderstood?

Otherwise the glib reply doesn't really fit. I didn't say coaching was great, but to default to the coaching is the issue because of Lucic usage without even looking it up is pretty weak.

Apologies if you were kidding ... but wasn't all that clear given your posting history.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I dunno. To me those are not world beating numbers. You're paying Kadri $7MM and he gets 61 points?

Really? Yay?

Not 1 forward in the top 50 of scoring...! 50!

I don't know about this "centre depth". Seems very average to me.

I would imagine there aren't many teams that have that kind of production spread down the middle if you look it up. This is a team that has a lot of good, not great offensive players. It was always going to be by committee group this season. Where did having two 100 point players last season get the team, exactly?

Unfortunately, you have Huberdeau who has done very close to nothing all season and Markstrom, who can go from amazing to awful from the start of a game to the end this year. This really has been the difference between the Flames being in the mix and them being where they are now. It certainly has little to do with Kadri, Backlund or Lindholm who are a huge reason that this team is able to suppress shots as well as they do.

[Bingo]

Powerplay is a huge issue ... no doubt about it.

And it could be a coaching problem, but it's certainly not Lucic's usage.

Personally I just think they are lacking the driver compared to last year. Same coaching staff over seeing both seasons of man advantage.

They don't generate enough (ranked 17th in xGF60)
They don't finish well (ranked 24th in G60)

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Powerplay is a huge issue ... no doubt about it.

And it could be a coaching problem, but it's certainly not Lucic's usage.

Personally I just think they are lacking the driver compared to last year. Same coaching staff over seeing both seasons of man advantage.

They don't generate enough (ranked 17th in xGF60)
They don't finish well (ranked 24th in G60)

To me it's been more that it feels like they really aren't leveraging Huberdeau and Lindholm enough on the PP.

Before they changed the units up you had both Lindholm and Huberdeau down low generally. And the PP running through Kadri, Toffoli, and Andersson.

And honestly I'm just not sure how that made sense to anyone. Huberdeau as the passer and Lindholm as the bumper/shooter felt like a no brainer.

Now the players need to execute too but the set up has felt off all season.

[Royle9]

You look at the teams with a continually high power play % and watch their usage and its very easy to determine the "trend" the Flames just dont have.

Edmonton
Tampa
Toronto
Buffalo (this season)

All 4 of these teams have aggressive cross ice passing setups that focus on utilizing a guy who's deadly accurate from the circle. Stamkos, Draisaitl, Thompson, Matthews always waiting for that option, meanwhile the rest of their PP can be deadly as well but teams have to respect that shooting option giving them more room.

Finishing is obviously #1

But we constantly lack a true finisher with a deadly shot from the point, or 1 timer @ the circle. Teams just dont respect the Flames power play because its primarily perimeter passing back and forth with very little pressure. Johnny was pretty good last year with the cross ice feather passes and nobody has picked up that slack this year.

Last year they utilized that bump pass to the slot, but most teams have caught on to that now (Monahan's bread and butter) and it just doesn't work.
They also used Lindholm in this bump spot a lot but for whatever reason they haven't done it outside the first few games this season. His shot is deceptively good, I don't know why they dont go back to trying that and let Huberdeau be the behind the net/possession guy Tkachuk usually was last year.

We need a deadly finishing shot, Toffoli is pretty good from the circle but he never one times it, its always a possession based wrist shot that takes time to setup.

Stone's shot on the point should be utilized more (though he needs to hit the net) but they really do continue to need a shooting first forward who can rifle it from the circle at any given point.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

To me it's been more that it feels like they really aren't leveraging Huberdeau and Lindholm enough on the PP.

Before they changed the units up you had both Lindholm and Huberdeau down low generally. And the PP running through Kadri, Toffoli, and Andersson.

And honestly I'm just not sure how that made sense to anyone. Huberdeau as the passer and Lindholm as the bumper/shooter felt like a no brainer.

Now the players need to execute too but the set up has felt off all season.

Yeah I've wondered if Huberdeau down low and in front of the net in Tkachuk's old role would help.

But I honestly think it's 75% players and not try level. Calgary's PP hummed on Gaudreau and Tkachuk seeing options through seams, not getting that this year.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Royle9

You look at the teams with a continually high power play % and watch their usage and its very easy to determine the "trend" the Flames just dont have.

Edmonton
Tampa
Toronto
Buffalo (this season)

All 4 of these teams have aggressive cross ice passing setups that focus on utilizing a guy who's deadly accurate from the circle. Stamkos, Draisaitl, Thompson, Matthews always waiting for that option, meanwhile the rest of their PP can be deadly as well but teams have to respect that shooting option giving them more room.

Finishing is obviously #1

But we constantly lack a true finisher with a deadly shot from the point, or 1 timer @ the circle. Teams just dont respect the Flames power play because its primarily perimeter passing back and forth with very little pressure. Johnny was pretty good last year with the cross ice feather passes and nobody has picked up that slack this year.

Last year they utilized that bump pass to the slot, but most teams have caught on to that now (Monahan's bread and butter) and it just doesn't work.
They also used Lindholm in this bump spot a lot but for whatever reason they haven't done it outside the first few games this season. His shot is deceptively good, I don't know why they dont go back to trying that and let Huberdeau be the behind the net/possession guy Tkachuk usually was last year.

We need a deadly finishing shot, Toffoli is pretty good from the circle but he never one times it, its always a possession based wrist shot that takes time to setup.

Stone's shot on the point should be utilized more (though he needs to hit the net) but they really do continue to need a shooting first forward who can rifle it from the circle at any given point.

I just don't know if Stone works.

The shot is a big add, but his puck movement is at least an equal subtraction.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just don't know if Stone works.

The shot is a big add, but his puck movement is at least an equal subtraction.

Not wrong, my point is solely based on the fact that his shot is at least respected all be it that's all he's got going for him.

I was hoping Weegar could step in and QB a power play this year but it definitely didn't transpire. Were kind of missing that aspect too come to think of it.