[Barn Burner] Boomer: "You were wrong"

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Is this is copied and pasted from Feb 2021? Because I can’t tell.

Rhett, Boomer and everyone else said the same thing about our old core. Then those stars left. Now it’s meet the new stars, same as the old stars.

I love it when people wait until after the fact to say tear it all down. Thanks a lot captain hindsight. They should have been clamouring for a rebuild when it was September of 2021 and we were heading into the season with our two best players on expiring contracts. Even in July of 2022 they could have shared this wisdom but they didn’t.

Now 2/3 of the way into the first season with a new core and it’s a failure. Geez good call guys. Way to stay ahead of the curve.

To be fair to Rhett he said the Huberdeau trade was a bad idea from day 1.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Huberdeau would have gotten someting similar. No team would hold one sub par season against him. Especially looking at the rest of the team's performance. Or he could have pushed Treliving to move him pre season and gotten a similar deal elsewhere, maybe in a lower tax state.

He would have got at least 9

Horvat got 8.5 and his career high was 61 points before this season

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

To be fair to Rhett he said the Huberdeau trade was a bad idea from day 1.

He says everything is a bad idea
he thought giving Gaudreau and Tkachuk 10.5 each was a bad idea too

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Huberdeau would have gotten someting similar. No team would hold one sub par season against him. Especially looking at the rest of the team's performance. Or he could have pushed Treliving to move him pre season and gotten a similar deal elsewhere, maybe in a lower tax state.

If Hubby continues on his path the rest of the year, no one would be giving him $84M at his age.

"No team" would hold it against him? How about every team would factor it in.

When you are his age, it may not be "one subpar year", it may be the beginning of a trend.

If what you are saying is true, Calgary can easily trade him after the season, as teams will line up to take on that contract.

Hubby needs to reverse his current trend, then we have something.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If Hubby continues on his path the rest of the year, no one would be giving him $84M at his age.

"No team" would hold it against him? How about every team would factor it in.

When you are his age, it may not be "one subpar year", it may be the beginning of a trend.

If what you are saying is true, Calgary can easily trade him after the season, as teams will line up to take on that contract.

Hubby needs to reverse his current trend, then we have something.

Come on. If Mackinnon had a bad year next year, in year one of a 8x12.5M deal would you say no to a trade for him? Because he will be getting up there, you know. Or would you say "Hey, this guy's been a good performer and had an off year".

It's moot though. Huberdeau's not getting traded.

[dino7c]

most teams will look at the Flames roster, coach, and system and think "he will score more here for sure"

and they would probably be correct

[Coach]

When Gaudreau left I was of the opinion it was time to sell the rest after their season highs, including Tkachuk. And then when that trade happened, and then the Kadri signing, I was on board with this team getting a new look and still being competitive.

I do now wish that Tkachuk's return was flipped, as now those assets are hugely diminished.

I don't think taking a shot at Treliving's "bravery" is fair. He had a choice to make and he didn't halfway it. I can respect that at least. At the end of the off season and everyone and their mom (including the media) was worshipping. Now it's a bunch of "I told you so".

Flames fans never know what they have until it's gone.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If Hubby continues on his path the rest of the year, no one would be giving him $84M at his age.

"No team" would hold it against him? How about every team would factor it in.

When you are his age, it may not be "one subpar year", it may be the beginning of a trend.

If what you are saying is true, Calgary can easily trade him after the season, as teams will line up to take on that contract.

Hubby needs to reverse his current trend, then we have something.

GMs are dumb with UFAs. He would still be looking at 9 min. I bet Montreal would have given him at least that.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Come on. If Mackinnon had a bad year next year, in year one of a 8x12.5M deal would you say no to a trade for him? Because he will be getting up there, you know. Or would you say "Hey, this guy's been a good performer and had an off year".

It's moot though. Huberdeau's not getting traded.

Huberdeau is not tradable. Nobody is going to take on that contact for a guy coming off 55 pts/year. It’s not just salary. It’s 8 yrs of commitment to a 30 yrs old.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Huberdeau is not tradable. Nobody is going to take on that contact for a guy coming off 55 pts/year. It’s not just salary. It’s 8 yrs of commitment to a 30 yrs old.

So, like a lot of teams are doing now.

We all know how these contracts work. You pay 8 years and try to get 4 good ones.

[N-E-B]

Listen to most episodes and this one today was probably the best so far. I tend to agree with Pinder that if they're serious about winning and want to commit to a rebuild right now it actually might turn around pretty quick. I also agree with him that you cannot go into next year and try to win with Sutter. If they don't want to start tearing it down, fine, Sutter's gotta go.

Personally I thought when Gaudreau left it was a great time to rebuild. An absolute monster of a draft with a generational talent at #1, and the entire top 10 looks fantastic. Even if you don't land Bedard they would have started year 1 of the rebuild off with a really nice pick. This team isn't going to beat McDavid and Draisaitl. Sorry. Rag on their defence all you want but those guys absolutely torch us and are 100% better than anything we've had since Iginla. It's also tough to compete with places like Vegas and Los Angeles in the trade and free agency market. Calgary is, unfortunately, a market that has to build through the draft. So build through the draft.

I admire that they tried. I do. And I applauded it in the offseason. But there is nothing wrong with saying "you know what? We gambled, thought it was a good gamble, but we were wrong. Let's right this ship before it sinks".

If they admit they were wrong and do the right thing they could get some really nice pieces back over the next few years for Lindholm, Markstrom, Backlund, Hanifin, Zadorov, sell high on Toffoli, and Tanev. All these guys have expiring contracts soon, and I think you could still find a home for Markstrom despite his poor start. They probably won't pick in the top 10 if they start now but they'd still get a solid prospect at 11-13.

Unfortunately we're probably stuck with Huberdeau, and he wouldn't be happy with a rebuild, but you know what? That's on him. If he was producing even at an 85-90 point pace (which is a 30 point drop in production) I don't think we're having this conversation.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Coach

When Gaudreau left I was of the opinion it was time to sell the rest after their season highs, including Tkachuk. And then when that trade happened, and then the Kadri signing, I was on board with this team getting a new look and still being competitive.

I do now wish that Tkachuk's return was flipped, as now those assets are hugely diminished.

I don't think taking a shot at Treliving's "bravery" is fair. He had a choice to make and he didn't halfway it. I can respect that at least. At the end of the off season and everyone and their mom (including the media) was worshipping. Now it's a bunch of "I told you so".

Flames fans never know what they have until it's gone.

like the fans that thought we should get rid of Tkachuk after his 43 point season because an 8M qualifying offer was WAY more than he was worth.

We have post history, some of the same fans now saying how dumb the Flames are for trading him for a guy that scored 115 points, a first, a top 4 D, and a prospect


Hindsight drafting and trading

Also, people talk like they could have got a high end pick for Tkachuk...he had a list of teams he would sign with, none of them had top picks

The list I see reported was Avs, Lightning, Panthers, Knights, Blues

Nobody had the cap without sending big money back

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So, like a lot of teams are doing now.

We all know how these contracts work. You pay 8 years and try to get 4 good ones.

Like who?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Jesus Christ. Hey may not be tradeable now but do you really think he's a 50 point player going forward for the rest of his career?
Yeah you probably do.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Like who?

Do you really need examples??? Pretty much any contract offered with term to any player over 28, Post apex is 32. Toews, Brent Burns, Erik Karlson, Shea Webber, PK Suban, Ryan Suter, Zach Parise, all contracts with too much term that were terrible in the back end. I mean this list could include 100 players More recent: Kris Letang, Bo Horvat, Sergei Bobrovsky, Tyler Seguin, this list is quite extensive as well.

Only recently are we seeing teams that are eliminating the bridge deals and paying players for the projected/ current production in hopes they are getting value contratcs. Cale Makar, Tage Thompson, Dylan Cozens, Matt Boldy, Nico Hischier, Jack and Quinn Hughes, Nick Suzuki. We will see this list grow next year to include Matty Beniers, Trevor Zegras, among others. This is the new NHL path to success.

[traptor]

I think you need to ride it out this season and next season.

If they miss out on playoffs in both seasons you have to blow it up at the next tdl. If they can't figure it out in 2 season this core never will.

As others have mentioned you'll have an offramp with all the UFA's that season (lindy, backlund, hanifin, toffoli and tanev). That's over half your core and some pieces that would be coveted by contenders.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by jayswin

What makes you think that he seems to realize it?

There was one fan960 interview shortly after he came back and he admitted how poor a job he did as GM.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Jesus Christ. Hey may not be tradeable now but do you really think he's a 50 point player going forward for the rest of his career?
Yeah you probably do.

Honestly, who knows at this point. The drop off so far is almost unprecedented. I have trouble thinking of any other players who fell off a production cliff like he has. At this point, we can't even be sure we've hit rock bottom.

The only players that come to mind without thinking too hard are Cheechoo after he stopped playing with Thornton, and Rob Brown after he stopped playing with Lemieux, but even in those cases, the drop off wasn't as drastic or quick. In those case, they were the ones being carried. Huberdeau is supposed to be the guy doing the carrying.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Honestly, who knows at this point. The drop off so far is almost unprecedented. I have trouble thinking of any other players who fell off a production cliff like he has. At this point, we can't even be sure we've hit rock bottom.

The only players that come to mind without thinking too hard are Cheechoo after he stopped playing with Thornton, and Rob Brown after he stopped playing with Lemieux, but even in those cases, the drop off wasn't as drastic or quick. In those case, they were the ones being carried. Huberdeau is supposed to be the guy doing the carrying.

It's pretty unfathomable. Cheechoo is a scary tale for sure, and has what has come to mind this season.

Watching Huberdeau over this season, it's hard to imagine how he got to 100+ pts. I just don't see it. Yeah the coach asks for more defensive responsibility, but how does that affect your ability to pass, shoot or skate? People act like Sutter has some complicated system to learn. He just wants players to back check and be positionally sound. It's not that hard. He's not teaching them anything they weren't told in PeeWee. It just takes some mental and physical effort.

[powderjunkie]

Phil Kessel's 8x8 deal was 12.44% of the cap when he signed it.

Huby's deal will 12.5% of an 84M cap