What to do with Huberdeau?

[ComixZone]

Everybody trying to say it’s the system or the player - and I don’t think it’s either.

It’s a general lack of talent throughout the lineup, specifically top line talent.

Gaudreau sucked under Sutter too until paired with Tkachuk and Lindholm. There was no magical transition period - Sutter just put him with two other top players and chemistry clicked. Even if Huby and Lindy did find chemistry together it still wouldn’t be enough to make this a top team, as they’d be playing with someone significantly worse than Tkachuk or Gaudreau.

Lindy was the 3rd best player on his line and was made better by his line mates. Huberdeau benefitted from a good PP and getting to play behind Barkov’s line in a system with line mates that generated chances off the rush. It’s easy to see how bad of a fit this current system/roster is for a player who generates offense in that manner. Our PP is trash because it lacks other top talent (and deploys a lame strategy), and our even strength play is complete #%^* at generating offense on the rush (and any offense in general)

The Flames need more elite talent. We don’t have enough to build one true 1st line. So we can blame the player or the coach, but the reality is this team has a roster problem. It’s a #%^* team built on depth rather than top end skill - and in the NHL, top end skill wins the day.

It’s a bad roster.

[NewFan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not sure it's fair to just it's all Barkov.

Between 2014 and 2022 he averaged 45 points per 82 games at 5v5, and 2.39 points per 60 at 5v5. Generally that ranks you in the top 30 or so of 5v5 production, and to average that over a 8 year stretch is very very good.

Natural stat trick can only do 3 year WoWY so let's take a look.

2014-2017:

Huberdeau + Barkov: 1572 TOI, 53.1% xGF, 3.24 GF/60
Barkov w/o Huberdeau: 1159 TOI, 51.1% xGF, 2.17 GF/60
Hubderdeau w/o Barkov: 992 TOI, 51.5% xGF, 2.6 GF/60

Both guys benefitted from playing together, Huberdeau faired better away from Barkov than vice versa.

2017-2020

Huberdeau+Barkov: 2089 TOI, 50.4% xGF, 3.45 GF/60
Barkov w/o Huberdeau: 1317 TOI, 47.7% xGF, 2.96 GF/60
Huberdeau w/o Barkov: 1230 TOI, 48.1% xGF, 2.83 GF/60

So again both better together than separate, Huberdeau still strong GF/60 without Barkov.

2020-2022

Huberdeau+Barkov: 293 TOI, 56.52% xGF, 3.69 GF/60
Barkov w/o Huberdeau: 1303 TOI, 58.9% xGF, 3.26 GF/60
Huberdeau w/o Barkov: 1426 TOI, 52.3% xGF, 3.66 GF/60

So the underlying metrics got worse but the production in terms of points and goals actually was still better than Barkov away from Huberdeau and on par with the limited minutes they played together.

In 21-22 his most common linemates were Bennett and Duclair. In 20-21 his most common linemates were Hornqvist and Wennberg.

This hindsight idea that Huberdeau was a bad player in Florida carried by Barkov and Bennett (lol) is just false.

He was a good player that was a top point producer in the league over a 6-8 year stretch. It hasn't worked out here at all for whatever reason but doesn't mean he was bad before.

Right here. Which team has the best statistic oriented management?
Trade Huberdeau to them with 20% retained for 1st round pick.
$8.4 million for at least 80 point player should be good for them.
Or 20% retained Huberdeau for Josh Anderson.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Everybody trying to say it’s the system or the player - and I don’t think it’s either.

It’s a general lack of talent throughout the lineup, specifically top line talent.

Gaudreau sucked under Sutter too until paired with Tkachuk and Lindholm. There was no magical transition period - Sutter just put him with two other top players and chemistry clicked.

The Flames need more elite talent. We don’t have enough to build one true 1st line. So we can blame the player or the coach, but the reality is this team has a roster problem. It’s a #%^* team built on depth rather than top end skill - and in the NHL, top end skill wins the day.

It’s a bad roster.

It could have been a decent team still, but it turns out that the guys they brought in couldn't replace what the guys that left brought, and at the same time didn't mesh with the skill sets of the guys that were here already.

They were pretty unfortunate

Should've test-drove Huby and Weegar before flashing the cash

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

It could have been a decent team still, but it turns out that the guys they brought in couldn't replace what the guys that left brought, and at the same time didn't mesh with the skill sets of the guys that were here already.

They were pretty unfortunate

Should've test-drove Huby and Weegar before flashing the cash

Looking at this team critically, it doesn’t have the pieces to be anywhere near a championship quality team. It doesn’t have the foundation of a champion.

The only path forward after Gaudreau and Tkachuk bailed was rebuilding (and even with Gaudreau/Tkachuk the team wasn’t a championship quality team).

The Flames need to rebuild. They tried to stay relevant, but they failed. The team is nowhere near championship quality, so the quicker they pivot the better off they’ll be.

[Mr.Coffee]

If he can be traded you need to try.

[OutOfTheCube]

I mean, we signed Skinner for $9million and he immediately regressed to barely looking like an NHL player.

Than they fired the coach and Granato took over, and he’s back to being a top line offensive winger.

So, I think you know what I’m saying.

[Goriders]

Make some moves at the deadline to gather some picks or prospects.

Reshuffle things a bit in the offseason and try again next year.

Something is wrong with this team. It’s not a lack of talent. It’s chemistry.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Yobbo

Most people were, please sign this guy before the season starts. When he did sign people were over the moon. No one could see this happening, and now unfortunately unless something miraculous happens we may be stuck with quite possibly the worst contract in the NHL. It's just Flames luck. We aren't allowed to have nice things.

No one (or barely anyone) thought it was the wrong move either. I was excited about the signing. I don't think anyone could have predicted this lack of performance. Maybe one of the sharpest declines of a star player I've ever witnessed. 115pt player to pretty much a complete non factor.

I also think the fans and media have been incredibly patient, I'm surprised its taken this long for the Huberdeau criticism to get its own thread. Much deserved though, right now its a massive issue for the team. It's almost incomprehensible how bad its going for him.

[camm13]

Huberdeau turning into the glorified version of James Neal. The only guy who didn't register a shot tonight besides Huberdeau...Lucic. Everytime he looks like he's coming around, it just doesn't happened. And now he's looked even worse. Easily worst contract in the league when it kicks in next season. For a guy making that much dough, he should be looking like a game changer. He's been invisible aside from what, maybe two games out of the year so far.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

I mean, we signed Skinner for $9million and he immediately regressed to barely looking like an NHL player.

Than they fired the coach and Granato took over, and he’s back to being a top line offensive winger.

So, I think you know what I’m saying.

I know exactly what you’re saying.

Huberdeau for Skinner.

[bubbsy]

I think they only have one option to try to get him going and that’s to load up a top line and pray it works.

Huberdeau - kadri - lindholm

[traptor]

I doubt Huberdeau is going anywhere. He will probably be here when the team decides to rebuild or retool or whatever they will call it.

The question is how far into his contract are we when this happens.
If the flames have another bad season next year and Lindholm walks,it could be as soon as then.

But up until that point the flames need to do everything they can to get him going.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

If this is indeed the case, how is it that no one in the organization saw this coming?! OR let's say the scouts did warn Treliving about this possibility, how is it that no one told Treliving to wait and see how he does in thi system before giving him that contract?

I cannot imagine them simply looking at the point totals and making the trade.

Christ can we stop pretending that
1. Scouting is some magical thing that can magically produce certain answers to everything
2. That the Flames only looked at point totals to make that deal

Huberdeau has been an elite producing forward that a lot of this board was gushing over last season
Hockey has a lot of randomness and fit between players and players and coaches are a big factor and hard to predict
Let’s apply some level of critical thinking

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I think they only have one option to try to get him going and that’s to load up a top line and pray it works.

Huberdeau - kadri - lindholm

Yup.. the same move as they made in 2021

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by camm13

Huberdeau turning into the glorified version of James Neal. The only guy who didn't register a shot tonight besides Huberdeau...Lucic. Everytime he looks like he's coming around, it just doesn't happened. And now he's looked even worse. Easily worst contract in the league when it kicks in next season. For a guy making that much dough, he should be looking like a game changer. He's been invisible aside from what, maybe two games out of the year so far.

I’m glad Huberdeau didn’t register a shot.

I wish a lot more of our players didn’t register shots.

I’m sick of the shots this team takes. They’re bull#%^* shots. They need to hold onto the puck an extra second, make the extra move, make the extra pass - they need to make quality plays. They don’t make quality plays and as a result they don’t score goals.

They nailed it on After Burner tonight. For opposing goalies playing the Flames is like practice.

The Flames play brain dead hockey and it shouldn’t encouraged.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I’m glad Huberdeau didn’t register a shot.

I wish a lot more of our players didn’t register shots.

I’m sick of the shots this team takes. They’re bull#%^* shots. They need to hold onto the puck an extra second, make the extra move, make the extra pass - they need to make quality plays. They don’t make quality plays and as a result they don’t score goals.

They nailed it on After Burner tonight. For opposing goalies playing the Flames is like practice.

The Flames play brain dead hockey and it shouldn’t encouraged.

That's Sutter hockey to a T. Boring hockey. Little creativity.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by CFO

That's Sutter hockey to a T. Boring hockey. Little creativity.

Nobody would care if they were winning.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by CFO

That's Sutter hockey to a T. Boring hockey. Little creativity.

It’s hardly an exclusive Sutter trait.

The Flames did it under Ward, Peters, and Gulutzan. Sutter definitely coaches it now, but it seems to be a style of hockey that the Calgary Flames organization seems to believe in.

The big common theme during this era of Flames hockey is that the team isn’t built for success.

I’m not hanging problems on the coach anymore (although he’s certainly not helping). There’s a way to build a good NHL hockey team, and the Flames haven’t gone through the process of giving themselves a good chance at doing it - so this is what we get.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Yup.. the same move as they made in 2021

Agreed. Then if it works you have a line going and hopefully the others feed off of it.

[FlamesAddiction]

It worked pretty good last season. The cast is what changed. It's pretty obvious what changed is what the problem is.