Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

Their hatred lends you to believe they cant think for themselves? they are some kind of hive mind and thoughtless drones working for the colony?

… yes.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

That's the thing though.
Are you saying the "**** Trudeau" flag isn't demonizing at least 1 specific person, if not generally the people who will vote for Trudeau?
Flying a "**** Trudeau" flag indicates a willingness for a certain level of discourse, and it isn't particularly high.
Singling out that kind of person isn't demonizing them, it's making an, at least partially informed, judgement based on their explicit actions.

Telling you I think PP is going to be bad for the country, and because of that, I'm willing to admit that the recent examples of corruption are the price I'm willing to pay to make sure he isn't in charge, and being able to explain why I think that is (Despite what I think, and a few others have pointed out, seems to be intentional obfuscation on PP's part as to what he really means when he says things), isn't demonizing PP, and it isn't demonizing people who vote for him.

To clarify Shantz, I was speaking to the comment about courting the far right, Maybe demonizing was too strong of word, I will admit. There has become this growing voice that right wing people are less then, that's what I take issue with. Also, I would suggest the PPC party is much more courting to the beliefs you so strongly disagree with, and as such the CPC part typically lends itself more to the centre type peoples.

Yes, the F Trudeau flags are demonizing one person. I dont infer the hatred from that flag on to those who vote liberal but maybe im misguided on that. You feel they are a attack on yourself? Flying a "**** Trudeau" flag indicates a willingness for a certain level of discourse, and it isn't particularly high. These are the statements I dislike

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

Also, I would suggest the PPC party is much more courting to the beliefs you so strongly disagree with, and as such the CPC part typically lends itself more to the centre type peoples.

That used to be true under OToole, but under Sheer, Bergen and now under PP, it sure seems like the CPC want to absorb the PPC voters instead of letting the crazies stay there. I don’t see much from PP lately that leads me to believe he is in the centre of the spectrum.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The other side of the coin, we have the current government that shows the same regard for inflation, trying to implement policy and programs that only stoke further inflation. Which also questions whether they understand what inflation is. We see a pattern forming more everyday where PP blames Trudeau, and Trudeau blames everyone else. Zero accountability from Government. End of the day, its us Canadians that suffer.

What current Federal government policies/programs do you think are going to lead to higher inflation (particularly considering that inflation is largely an international phenomenon that any one country only has partial control over)?

Virtually all of the supports I'm aware of are directed at the poorest of the poor. And those people are going to be spending money on things that have relatively inelastic demand (food, shelter, etc.), so I'm struggling to see how them having slightly more money is going to drive inflation. More likely, it'll either keep them fed and housed, or it'll help keep them from going into debt to spend the same money. Neither of those create inflationary pressures to any great degree.

Now if the government was creating a bunch of money to pay for all that, then fair enough; that's something that could put pressure on inflation. But that's not happening at all. 2022's increase in M2 in Canada was the 3rd or 4th slowest monetary supply growth in the last 50 years and the Bank of Canada is continuing to roll assets of its balance sheet.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by opendoor

What current Federal government policies/programs do you think are going to lead to higher inflation (particularly considering that inflation is largely an international phenomenon that any one country only has partial control over)?



Virtually all of the supports I'm aware of are directed at the poorest of the poor. And those people are going to be spending money on things that have relatively inelastic demand (food, shelter, etc.), so I'm struggling to see how them having slightly more money is going to drive inflation. More likely, it'll either keep them fed and housed, or it'll help keep them from going into debt to spend the same money. Neither of those create inflationary pressures to any great degree.



Now if the government was creating a bunch of money to pay for all that, then fair enough; that's something that could put pressure on inflation. But that's not happening at all. 2022's increase in M2 in Canada was the 3rd or 4th slowest monetary supply growth in the last 50 years and the Bank of Canada is continuing to roll assets of its balance sheet.

What is M2 again? Genuinely curious.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by opendoor

What current Federal government policies/programs do you think are going to lead to higher inflation (particularly considering that inflation is largely an international phenomenon that any one country only has partial control over)?

Virtually all of the supports I'm aware of are directed at the poorest of the poor. And those people are going to be spending money on things that have relatively inelastic demand (food, shelter, etc.), so I'm struggling to see how them having slightly more money is going to drive inflation. More likely, it'll either keep them fed and housed, or it'll help keep them from going into debt to spend the same money. Neither of those create inflationary pressures to any great degree.

Now if the government was creating a bunch of money to pay for all that, then fair enough; that's something that could put pressure on inflation. But that's not happening at all. 2022's increase in M2 in Canada was the 3rd or 4th slowest monetary supply growth in the last 50 years and the Bank of Canada is continuing to roll assets of its balance sheet.

Uh, you got a source for that?
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m2

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Izzle

What is M2 again? Genuinely curious.

Basically liquid money. So non-bank held hard currency, bank account deposits, money market funds, etc.

So if can be spent relatively easily (which is most important in terms of inflation), it's counted as part of M2.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by opendoor

What current Federal government policies/programs do you think are going to lead to higher inflation (particularly considering that inflation is largely an international phenomenon that any one country only has partial control over)?

Virtually all of the supports I'm aware of are directed at the poorest of the poor. And those people are going to be spending money on things that have relatively inelastic demand (food, shelter, etc.), so I'm struggling to see how them having slightly more money is going to drive inflation. More likely, it'll either keep them fed and housed, or it'll help keep them from going into debt to spend the same money. Neither of those create inflationary pressures to any great degree.

Now if the government was creating a bunch of money to pay for all that, then fair enough; that's something that could put pressure on inflation. But that's not happening at all. 2022's increase in M2 in Canada was the 3rd or 4th slowest monetary supply growth in the last 50 years and the Bank of Canada is continuing to roll assets of its balance sheet.

We used Quantitative easing right, while also driving the debt servicing fees thru the roof that are going to cost billions to service.

Also, I believe the m2 for Canada has been abysmal and using the excuse, Well everyone is doing it does not hold water with me. I believe it was the highest since 1968 in 2022. We are robbing paul to pay paul.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Uh, you got a source for that?
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m2

Those are raw values; percentages are much more appropriate.

In terms of % growth in M2, 2022 is looking like it'll come in at about 2.5-3% (they haven't released Decembers number yet). The only years I'm aware of in the last 50 years that were sub-3% were 1996, 1997, and 1998.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

We used Quantitative easing right, while also driving the debt servicing fees thru the roof that are going to cost billions to service.

And now they're tightening (significantly so) which is driving down inflation. Higher interest rates pull money out of the economy which is the opposite of an inflationary pressure.

Also, I believe the m2 for Canada has been abysmal and using the excuse, Well everyone is doing it does not hold water with me. I believe it was the highest since 1968 in 2022. We are robbing paul to pay paul.

I'm not really sure what that means. M2 is an aggregate measure and it gets higher basically every single year as the economy grows.

In terms of growth in M2, 2022 was the 4th slowest in the last 50 years.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

We used Quantitative easing right, while also driving the debt servicing fees thru the roof that are going to cost billions to service.

Also, I believe the m2 for Canada has been abysmal and using the excuse, Well everyone is doing it does not hold water with me. I believe it was the highest since 1968 in 2022. We are robbing paul to pay paul.

Did the Liberal Government do that?
No, it's the Bank of Canada, which is independent of Parliament and the PM.
Unless you're arguing that the Bank of Canada isn't independent, or shouldn't be. (Something that PP has seemed to indicate, which is very bad policy IMO).

Do you honestly think the Bank of Canada would be acting differently under a CPC lead Government?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

There is many things that can lead to this, and it comes from many places outside of just blame. However, Trudeau is the leader of this country, and as such the leader typically receives much of the blame regardless of earned or otherwise. IE Sutter is the problem! Trudeau does many things that can make others hate him, From attacks on their lively hoods, the condescending tones he chooses to speak to Canadians in, his overall demeanour when speaking about those he disagrees with "do we tolerate these people". All the above and many more I don't have the time to type.

Their hatred lends you to believe they cant think for themselves? they are some kind of hive mind and thoughtless drones working for the colony?

Hate is a powerful emotion and influences thinking more often than not. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that people who hate Trudeau for all of the reasons you listed above, to the extent that they form an identity reliant on their hate for Trudeau, would also look favourably at PP when he blames Trudeau for inflation, do you?

If so, why?

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

You want me to explain the far ends of the spectrum to you? I would think you have a firm understanding of what each side represents. you are just trying to create a A ha! moment where you can try to show horn me into a political viewpoint where you can decide I can be dismissed.

No, I want you to share some things from the far ends of the spectrum that you strongly disagree with because I’m curious what those things actually are. I’m just asking you to provide more information on something you brought up. Specific ideas, policies, whatever, that you disagree with.

And then you could maybe explain to me how painting my question as dishonest with an ulterior motive is less demeaning than suggesting people who put a particular sticker on their truck don’t want a high level of discourse. Is it ok for you to make negative assumptions about me but not ok for anyone to do it to people with “#### Trudeau” stickers? Why would that be? Do you have an issue with these kinds of comments or not?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Do you have a F Trudeau sticker on your truck/car?

If not, why are you lumping yourself in with them?

Based on the invasion thread, I don't think that poster has room for a "#### TRUDEAU" sticker because the Z is too large

[Aarongavey]

Inflation for all items will be under 3% year over year by May, June at the absolute latest. Outside chance it will be at 2% in June of this year. I wonder what happens to the “inflation is out of control” argument then. The “government spending is driving inflation” argument will also be confusing then because presumably government spending will also still be high. Oh well, problems to worry about in 5 months.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by calculoso

If this was the current situation, it would be very easy to answer. The corruption is worse.

But we are not there anymore.

We are currently with PP not only openly courting the crazies but also exposing crazy policy ideas (eg: pegging currency to bitcoin)

Very different set of choices

Funny how everyone is now talking about OToole.

I am not a fan of PP either, and likely wouldn't even vote CPC right now, but Canadians knew there was corruption and choose to ignore it with the last election, because of the 'crazies'.

Now everyone is shocked when more corruption is found.

Sadly, the price we will likely pay is a CPC government.

Massive mistake on all fronts. Not sure what kind of conversations people had about the last election, but going by the threads on here, the fear mongering about the 'crazies' was pathetic.

Now we have a government that is handing on 100 year contracts to their business cronies.

What a sad state of affairs this country has become.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Inflation for all items will be under 3% year over year by May, June at the absolute latest. Outside chance it will be at 2% in June of this year. I wonder what happens to the “inflation is out of control” argument then. The “government spending is driving inflation” argument will also be confusing then because presumably government spending will also still be high. Oh well, problems to worry about in 5 months.

Grocery chains have basically come out and said 'screw you, prices are going up.'

Some fancy metric from the government saying 'inflation' is down doesn't mean families aren't still hurting when it comes to the essentials. Like food.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Azure

Funny how everyone is now talking about OToole.

I am not a fan of PP either, and likely wouldn't even vote CPC right now, but Canadians knew there was corruption and choose to ignore it with the last election, because of the 'crazies'.

Now everyone is shocked when more corruption is found.

Sadly, the price we will likely pay is a CPC government.

Massive mistake on all fronts. Not sure what kind of conversations people had about the last election, but going by the threads on here, the fear mongering about the 'crazies' was pathetic.

Now we have a government that is handing on 100 year contracts to their business cronies.

What a sad state of affairs this country has become.

What 100 year contracts to business cronies?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What 100 year contracts to business cronies?

100 was an exaggeration. It was only 81 years in length and an open contract.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Azure

Grocery chains have basically come out and said 'screw you, prices are going up.'

Some fancy metric from the government saying 'inflation' is down doesn't mean families aren't still hurting when it comes to the essentials. Like food.

So are we worried about some fancy government metric like “inflation” writ large or only food prices?

[Izzle]

Back in this thread and I see that @shotinthebacklund hasn't provided examples of specific policies that he likes from the CPC. Oh well, he must be busy.