getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It obviously doesn't solve the issues of homelessness or addiction. It would just make the train system a more contained system with better controls over access.

It seems crazy to me that costs would be $200 million to do it. What is that, close to $500,000 per station in Calgary?

That doesn't sound that crazy. All the downtown ones would need fencing and gates, along with many of the community ones. The ones that have bridge access only will be easier, like the UofC. But others require a lot of work. They were designed to be open, and the downtown ones are part of the sidewalk, so that complicates it as well.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It obviously doesn't solve the issues of homelessness or addiction. It would just make the train system a more contained system with better controls over access.

It seems crazy to me that costs would be $200 million to do it. What is that, close to $500,000 per station in Calgary?

I believe that number, because the downtown stations would cost millions each to wall off. It would also really wreck the streetsscape downtown.

But just because it doesn't make sense to fare gate all the stations doesn't mean we should fare gate zero stations either. Some of them would be very inexpensive and the incremental fare revenue would almost certainly pay back the costs.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I believe that number, because the downtown stations would cost millions each to wall off. It would also really wreck the streetsscape downtown.

But just because it doesn't make sense to fare gate all the stations doesn't mean we should fare gate zero stations either. Some of them would be very inexpensive and the incremental fare revenue would almost certainly pay back the costs.

Millions per station to put up glass walls and turnstiles? Sounds like a great business.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The last time this came up, I think the costs were around $200 million.

The number that had been bandied about for years was $400M. Council was told it was from a 2014 report. The CBC FOIPed the report and it turned out... it didn't exist. The $400M was just an internal Calgary Transit estimate. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...gary-1.6504818

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It seems crazy to me that costs would be $200 million to do it. What is that, close to $500,000 per station in Calgary?

There are 45 stations, so $200M / 45 = $4.44M per. The mythical $400M figure obviously works out to $8.89M per station.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by timun

The number that had been bandied about for years was $400M. Council was told it was from a 2014 report. The CBC FOIPed the report and it turned out... it didn't exist. The $400M was just an internal Calgary Transit estimate. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...gary-1.6504818



There are 45 stations, so $200M / 45 = $4.44M per. The mythical $400M figure obviously works out to $8.89 per station.

Wow. That's nuts.

[Wormius]

Unless done for safety reasons like the stations in China, there is no economic sense if just to prevent fare evasion.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Unless done for safety reasons like the stations in China, there is no economic sense if just to prevent fare evasion.

Exactly.

I think you might even be able to argue that from a financial perspective, increasing ridership (from a perceived safety perspective) vs. fare evasion might be the biggest benefit.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The last time this came up, I think the costs were around $200 million. You can buy a lot of community supports for people with that money. It's better spent elsewhere.

So what you're saying is....that money could buy a lot of Bus Tickets to Vancouver? Got it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Locke

So what you're saying is....that money could buy a lot of Bus Tickets to Vancouver? Got it.

I don't think it's possible to take the Bus to Vancouver anymore since Greyhound shut down?

That's probably a contributing factor actually...

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

There's also "personnel" in major metropolitan cities. A person that stands there to make sure people aren't easily doing what you say.

Cost of "person to stand there":

Rough numbers
45 Stations open 20 hrs a day 365 days a year. 328,500 service hours

Wage Cost of station attendants $25 -$30/hr (low estimate includes spares, spares for vacation coverage, time and a half for working stat holidays, part timer coverage etc)

Annual operation costs: $9.8 million/ yr

Need to sell additional 7000 tickets per day to pay for staff presence

Transit safety requires a multi sector approach. The transit department cannot fix this without other agencies.

[Muta]

On a related note, today is the first day of decriminalization of minor amounts of drugs in BC. Definitely interested to see how this goes! Toronto has also applied for a similar application.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Muta

On a related note, today is the first day of decriminalization of minor amounts of drugs in BC. Definitely interested to see how this goes! Toronto has also applied for a similar application.

I think it’s pretty obvious how it will go - no one will notice / no effect at all in the general population , and a few less people will get pointless fines / need to waste their time pleading down in court

It’s not BC didn’t already unofficially decriminalize years ago

[Muta]

Yeah I know; they've been unofficially decriminalized for several years now. This measure is to officially keep people out of jail for minor possession and users less fearful of police interactions. Just interested to see this as a sort of a 'litmus test' for decriminalization for the rest of the country, which I support.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Cost of "person to stand there":

Rough numbers
45 Stations open 20 hrs a day 365 days a year. 328,500 service hours

Wage Cost of station attendants $25 -$30/hr (low estimate includes spares, spares for vacation coverage, time and a half for working stat holidays, part timer coverage etc)

Annual operation costs: $9.8 million/ yr

Need to sell additional 7000 tickets per day to pay for staff presence

Transit safety requires a multi sector approach. The transit department cannot fix this without other agencies.

I don't know.... $10MM is kind of chump change isn't it.... we had no issue dolling out $100MM + an additional $168MM in loans to turn 20% of the bus fleet to electric.

It's not an impossible problem to solve, we just need to figure out what our priorities are.

[JohnnyB]

Why would a transit system pay someone to stand there 20 hours/day at every station? Just do it at peak hours on high volume stations or stations where there is an issue.

Also, Translink here in Vancouver reported that after installing their gated system at a cost of $200M they saw a $40M/year increase in fare revenue. Factoring in the lifetime cost of the system they projected to see a $20M/year benefit.

That said, I don't think it's a good use of funds to deal with the social issues of homelessness and addiction. It seems unrelated to that apart from satisfying the people who don't want to see or come into contact with drug addicted or homeless people and it obviously wouldn't address any of the causes of those people's difficulties.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Why would a transit system pay someone to stand there 20 hours/day at every station? Just do it at peak hours on high volume stations or stations where there is an issue.

Also, Translink here in Vancouver reported that after installing their gated system at a cost of $200M they saw a $40M/year increase in fare revenue. Factoring in the lifetime cost of the system they projected to see a $20M/year benefit.

That said, I don't think it's a good use of funds to deal with the social issues of homelessness and addiction. It seems unrelated to that apart from satisfying the people who don't want to see or come into contact with drug addicted or homeless people and it obviously wouldn't address any of the causes of those people's difficulties.

I assume peak hours would be when people feel most safe. Eyes on the street etc.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Also, Translink here in Vancouver reported that after installing their gated system at a cost of $200M they saw a $40M/year increase in fare revenue. Factoring in the lifetime cost of the system they projected to see a $20M/year benefit.

I know that the city is doing a fare gate study at the moment. It's definitely being talked about.

[81MC]

Sure transit won’t impact crisis around homelessness and substance abuse and mental health. It’s also not the appropriate venue for those burdens to be put on the public just trying to get to work or take their kids daycare.

Mandatory return the office, Declared climate emergency and stated goals to increase public transit ridership. The people taking the train are not going solve the issues endemic of an apparently devolving society.

I wane between compassion and acceptance to bitter frustration and anger when I see children being sheltered from

[blankall]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Why would a transit system pay someone to stand there 20 hours/day at every station? Just do it at peak hours on high volume stations or stations where there is an issue.

Also, Translink here in Vancouver reported that after installing their gated system at a cost of $200M they saw a $40M/year increase in fare revenue. Factoring in the lifetime cost of the system they projected to see a $20M/year benefit.

That said, I don't think it's a good use of funds to deal with the social issues of homelessness and addiction. It seems unrelated to that apart from satisfying the people who don't want to see or come into contact with drug addicted or homeless people and it obviously wouldn't address any of the causes of those people's difficulties.

It's pretty easy to squeeze through or around those transit stalls. I don't do it, but I do see homeless people doing it all the time. They also let homeless people on the busses downtown without paying.

I ride the bus every day through the downtown eastside on a route that stops by a bottle depot. They definitely are not enforcing fares.

I don't think the gates are an effective way of stopping people from loitering on transit. Not saying it's the right move, but in order to do that you would need security to remove people.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Why would a transit system pay someone to stand there 20 hours/day at every station? Just do it at peak hours on high volume stations or stations where there is an issue.

Or have teams of 2 officers ride the train back and forth along the line, getting out at each station and going from one end to the other, dealing with whatever problems are there (if any), and then getting on the next train, proceeding to the next station, and so on. And if a report comes in of something happening 3 stations away, just go straight there.