getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[Locke]

Hey, Jean Valjean did 19 years of hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread!

A steak ought to get you at least double that while making big rocks into smaller rocks!

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hey, Jean Valjean did 19 years of hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread!

He was only sent to prison for 5 years for the bread...he got the additional 14 years for multiple escape attempts...

/nerd

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hey, Jean Valjean did 19 years of hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread!

A steak ought to get you at least double that while making big rocks into smaller rocks!

When Weston stole bread from everyone he got nothing.

[JohnnyB]

I'm not endorsing stealing food, but I also don't think someone should be called a crackhead or a benzo-bozo because they're stealing food.

Food banks are have had hugely increased demand across Canada in the last year. Many of those using foodbanks are people in positions of food insecurity despite working full-time jobs. Inflation has been hard on a lot of people. Does that excuse theft? I'm not really taking a position on the morality of that, but someone might be feeling desperate for reasons that have nothing to do with substance addiction.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm not endorsing stealing food, but I also don't think someone should be called a crackhead or a benzo-bozo because they're stealing food.

Food banks are have had hugely increased demand across Canada in the last year. Many of those using foodbanks are people in positions of food insecurity despite working full-time jobs. Inflation has been hard on a lot of people. Does that excuse theft? I'm not really taking a position on the morality of that, but someone might be feeling desperate for reasons that have nothing to do with substance addiction.

I guess heres the thing though...if you're stealing food because you're desperate, thats understandable and as a society we throw away so much food so I'm all for finding more efficient ways to get desperate people food.

But desperate people would be stealing staples, like canned pasta, bread, etc. Not steaks.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

He was only sent to prison for 5 years for the bread...he got the additional 14 years for multiple escape attempts...

/nerd

I'm always game for nerding out on Les Mis.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Locke

I guess heres the thing though...if you're stealing food because you're desperate, thats understandable and as a society we throw away so much food so I'm all for finding more efficient ways to get desperate people food.

But desperate people would be stealing staples, like canned pasta, bread, etc. Not steaks.

I don't claim to understand the mentality and what the calculation is in someone's head at that moment, but I'm also not going to assume the person is stealing because of addiction issues. All kinds of people have been faced with a lot of difficult challenges in the last couple of years wrt cost of living and food inflation issues so, regardless of the morality of their choice, leading with compassion is likely a healthier approach for a community to take, rather than leading with a boot to the windshield and vigilante justice (as suggested in the OP).

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by GGG

When Weston stole bread from everyone he got nothing.

He got rich.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm not endorsing stealing food, but I also don't think someone should be called a crackhead or a benzo-bozo because they're stealing food.

Food banks are have had hugely increased demand across Canada in the last year. Many of those using foodbanks are people in positions of food insecurity despite working full-time jobs. Inflation has been hard on a lot of people. Does that excuse theft? I'm not really taking a position on the morality of that, but someone might be feeling desperate for reasons that have nothing to do with substance addiction.

I haven't been anywhere near needing to access a food bank but if I'm not mistaken they track usage/ID and limit the number of times that people can go to pick up food so I can understand people getting desperate when they can no longer turn to a charity for feed and need to resort to whatever is necessary. It is a very unfortunate situation.

[Ped]

Story in the Star this morning about this issue:


https://www.thestar.com/business/202...not-sorry.html

Shoplifting — theft under $5,000 — is a criminal offence in Canada. But that hasn’t deterred Tony, who feels that stealing from big supermarket chains to survive should not be a crime.
“I don’t have any kind of moral quandary with stealing food. If the prices were fair … I’d pay. But I would not be able to survive in my situation without shoplifting.”

Consumers grappling with soaring food prices are directing their ire at supermarkets, with accusations they are profiting from the worst inflation Canadians have seen in decades. And in fact, the country’s big three supermarket chains — Loblaw, Empire (Sobeys) and Metro — have seen their profits rise as food prices have climbed, according to a recent Star analysis.
In response, some shoplifters are justifying their actions as retaliation for what they see as corporate greed or simply as a means to obtain necessities they can no longer afford.

Years ago we used to work with a company that provided security to Walmart at Christmas time, and the guards were told very clearly by Walmart that it someone refused a bag check, just let them go.


And supermarkets in Ontario are implementing wheel-lock sensors - if you don't go out through a checkout, they lock up the buggy wheels when you try to leave the store. People are taking entire buggy loads and just walking out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

I guess heres the thing though...if you're stealing food because you're desperate, thats understandable and as a society we throw away so much food so I'm all for finding more efficient ways to get desperate people food.

Great point. Without endorsing “everyone should steal!” I think that if people considered for even a second how much food is thrown away and how much product is destroyed, they wouldn’t even really think twice about desperate people stealing food or clothing. It’s good, because a functional society needs the majority to think the rules are important enough to be followed, but at the same time? I don’t know, it makes so little sense to get more upset with somebody stealing a lot of bread than at the dozen loafs thrown out every week.

Though I disagree about the steak thing a bit. You’re stealing food anyway. If I’m stealing meat why am I stealing ground beef when I could be stealing prime rib? It’s not like people stealing at trying to manage a budget.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Great point. Without endorsing “everyone should steal!” I think that if people considered for even a second how much food is thrown away and how much product is destroyed, they wouldn’t even really think twice about desperate people stealing food or clothing. It’s good, because a functional society needs the majority to think the rules are important enough to be followed, but at the same time? I don’t know, it makes so little sense to get more upset with somebody stealing a lot of bread than at the dozen loafs thrown out every week.

Though I disagree about the steak thing a bit. You’re stealing food anyway. If I’m stealing meat why am I stealing ground beef when I could be stealing prime rib? It’s not like people stealing at trying to manage a budget.

I think just generally you can do a lot of things with ground beef, its more versatile staple in terms of making meals and nutrition, stretching it farther maybe? Steak is steak. Its a luxury.

If you're stealing to meet needs then a bunch of steaks isnt really your best option.

Its kind of nitpicky and digressing somewhat, but if we're going to assert that stealing food to feed your family out of desperation can be considered acceptable under certain circumstances then you're not typically going to be purloining the fois gras and caviar.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The statement that stores have seen profits rise as food prices have climbed, as if it's some sinister thing that betrays evil profiteering, just sounds dumb to me. Yeah... if an item used to cost 1.00 and your profit margin is 20% for 20 cents, and it now costs 1.10 and your profit margin is identical, that's 22 cents. It's expected that "profits rise as food prices climb".

If I make 100 bucks in profit a day, and the value of money changes by 10%, and I now make 110 bucks in profit, my profits have increased... but nothing has really changed.

[nik-]

Loblaws profits in the third quarter were up 30% over last year's. Clearly this is "inflation". #### them, steal it all, crackheads.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The statement that stores have seen profits rise as food prices have climbed, as if it's some sinister thing that betrays evil profiteering, just sounds dumb to me. Yeah... if an item used to cost 1.00 and your profit margin is 20% for 20 cents, and it now costs 1.10 and your profit margin is identical, that's 22 cents. It's expected that "profits rise as food prices climb".

If I make 100 bucks in profit a day, and the value of money changes by 10%, and I now make 110 bucks in profit, my profits have increased... but nothing has really changed.

But that's not really what's happening. Here's Loblaws' Net Income and revenue by year for the last 5 years:

2018: $766M on $46.7B in revenue
2019: $1.08B on $48B in revenue
2020: $1.11B on $52.7B in revenue
2021: $1.88B on $53.2B in revenue
Last 12 months: $2.14B on $55.3B in revenue

So revenue went up by 18% and Net Income went up by 179%.


Empire (who owns Sobeys, Safeway, FreshCo, etc.) has seen similar growth:

2018: $160M on $24.2B in revenue
2019: $387M on $25.1B in revenue
2020: $584M on $26.6B in revenue
2021: $702M on $28.3B in revenue
2022: $746M on $30.2B in revenue

Revenue saw 25% growth and Net Income roughly tripled (2018 was a down year, so I compared 2022 to their average net income in the years around then).

Now the companies claim that the huge increase in margins is because they're seeing more business in their their higher profit areas (pharmacy and whatnot), but neither has provided any evidence of that and their financial statements don't show that.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

Loblaws profits in the third quarter were up 30% over last year's. Clearly this is "inflation". #### them, steal it all, crackheads.

I always find this attitude odd. Its like some misguided 'Robin Hood' fallacy.

I'm all for finding ways to get food for the underprivileged and to waste less food overall, but this isnt really helpful.

Grocery chains are increasing their prices to cover their cost increases and raise their profits, this adversely affects the people who buy groceries, which is everyone, more or less.

What do people think is going to happen when they also have to cover increasing loss prevention? It just gives them another excuse to raise prices.

Its not coming out of the CEO's pay. He's not even going to notice. Nobody is 'sticking it to The Man.'

The only people getting screwed by Grocery theft is Grocery consumers. So...the rest of us...who pay for our groceries.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Locke

I always find this attitude odd. Its like some misguided 'Robin Hood' fallacy.

I'm all for finding ways to get food for the underprivileged and to waste less food overall, but this isnt really helpful.

Grocery chains are increasing their prices to cover their cost increases and raise their profits, this adversely affects the people who buy groceries, which is everyone, more or less.

What do people think is going to happen when they also have to cover increasing loss prevention? It just gives them another excuse to raise prices.

Its not coming out of the CEO's pay. He's not even going to notice. Nobody is 'sticking it to The Man.'

The only people getting screwed by Grocery theft is Grocery consumers. So...the rest of us...who pay for our groceries.

Lets say you waved a magic wand and ended all theft of food. How much do you expect food prices to drop?

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I don’t think people stealing meat are doing it because they need food. They need money, and if you doubt that spend 10 minutes at any gas station in Marlborough.

If we’re alright with stealing food, can I steal tools if I need them for work? Or CSA boots? At least those items can be used to get somebody to go to work and earn money to buy food.

Steal the gas. And steal the cars too with the cost of them these days. Houses too while we're at it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Lets say you waved a magic wand and ended all theft of food. How much do you expect food prices to drop?

How badly do you want food prices to rise?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I always find this attitude odd. Its like some misguided 'Robin Hood' fallacy.

I'm all for finding ways to get food for the underprivileged and to waste less food overall, but this isnt really helpful.

Grocery chains are increasing their prices to cover their cost increases and raise their profits, this adversely affects the people who buy groceries, which is everyone, more or less.

What do people think is going to happen when they also have to cover increasing loss prevention? It just gives them another excuse to raise prices.

Its not coming out of the CEO's pay. He's not even going to notice. Nobody is 'sticking it to The Man.'

The only people getting screwed by Grocery theft is Grocery consumers. So...the rest of us...who pay for our groceries.

I mean, they are being investigated for this, so it's not like Nik's point is baseless.

https://financialpost.com/news/retai...etition-bureau

Let's see how that turns out...in June.