We Are Failing Our Youth

[redforever]

Sorry I dont have a quick link for this. I heard this letter being read on the radio, wrote them for info as to where to get the letter that I heard and they sent the whole letter.

I was really quite amazed at the insight this 18 year old had about all the killings at schools and universities. Yes, it can be argued that most of those who kill have deep psychological problems, but perhaps if our society were a little bit less about "me" and a little bit more about all of us and how we can help one another and be a bit kinder to one another, some of these tragedies might be preventable.

FROM WHERE I STAND: A Teenager's Voice from Inside the Culture of Death

by Sarah Roney


On April 20, 1999, there was yet another gruesome shooting in Littleton,
Colorado. Kids killing kids. And again, the entire nation in its uproar is
trying to figure out why. I am eighteen years old. I live in a Small town
near Madison, Wisconsin. A small town just like the ones where these
horrifying shootings always seem to take place.

Every time those stories come on the television, I can't help but notice how
easily it could be my small town next. And I want to know why this is
happening just as badly as any parent or police chief or anchorman. The
thing is, I am right in the middle of it. I am in the same age group as all
of these high school kids. So I may have some insight for the world that has
been otherwise unattainable since these shootings started some years ago.

The night of the Littleton shooting, as I was flipping through the various
news channels that were covering the story in Littleton, Colorado, I heard
something that struck a chord in me. An anchorman was interviewing the
mother of a victim in the Jonesboro shooting. His question was: "If you look
at America in the 1950's, you will find that this kind of thing never
happened; whereas if you look at America today, this kind of thing is
becoming more and more frequent. Why do you think this is happening?" The
woman, of course, could not answer the question. In fact, she didn't really
even try.

But I did. I thought about it for a long time that night. And again the next
morning, when my favorite morning radio talk show asked its listeners why
they thought this has been happening. Many people said it's the parents of
the kids. Many people suggested television and video games. Many people even
turned to popular musicians, looking to put the blame somewhere. But I will
tell you what I think it is. What I, a regular teenager riding on the
coattails of Generation X, blame it on. It is not the parents or the movies
or the rock stars. It is AMERICA. It is this culture of death, this culture
in which liberals and feminists and activists are so anxious to let anything
be "OK" that the once tightened, knotted rope of society is unraveling right
beneath us.

Don't you see? There can be no order without discipline. All of those things
people think are causing children to run into a school and shoot their
teachers and peers and even kids they don't know - the movies, the video
games, the parents, the rap artists - they are only REFLECTIONS of our
society. Society breaks down, from one big metaphoric "family" into 50
metaphoric "families" and so on and so on, until you have the actual FAMILY,
the one with the parents and the kids and the dog. It is not one thing or
two things; it is the attitude of an entire "familiar" nation being
reflected back at us in the kids.

Just as that anchorman suggested, something was different about the 1950's.
WE WERE CONSERVATIVE. We had boundaries; we had a definite knowledge of
right and wrong throughout the entire nation. We didn't have feminists
pushing women so hard to go get a job that a woman who didn't have a job was
somehow "bad," thereby leaving kids at home with inadequate parental
guidance and often times with parents who were truly unhappy. We didn't have
liberals fighting so avidly to legalize everything that it was at the point
of completely blurring the line between good and bad. We didn't have a
nationwide media surge dedicated to sex and violence so intense that if you
weren't playing killing video games at age 14, then you were trying to
choose between contraceptives beforehand or abortion afterwards. We didn't
have disputes over whether or not we should help someone who is dying die
sooner - over whether or not we should ASSIST them in committing SUICIDE.
And we certainly didn't have a President who was in favor of NATO bombing
and killing children in Serbia come on the television to grieve the loss for
the families of children killed in America.

We live in a loosely tied society, a culture dedicated to death. If you
don't want the kid, kill it. If you don't want tolive out the rest of your
God-given days, kill yourself. Or better yet, have someone else come help
you do it. I guess, no matter how horrible or gruesome or gut-wrenching it
may be, it was just a matter of time before someone got that
"killing-as-a-means-to-an-end" idea stuck in their head for the part between
birth and death as well. Everything that happens in families and cities and
states and countries is the mirror image of the big picture.

We are falling apart as a society. Am I - some random normal teenager in
Farmertown, U.S.A. - the only one who sees that? It's sad and it's hard to
believe, but what's worse is that it's scary. I think it's time for our -
America's - Mom and Dad to ground us - to say, "If you don't shape up by the
time I count to three..." And then really count to three. Because we are
running wild and pretty soon we're going to be too far from home to ever get
back.

There was once a great saying by a famous man that has rung true throughout
the history of mankind - in every family and in every society and in every
social group and in every religion - it was a frighteningly true statement
that cannot be disputed. I am reminded of it now, in the wake of yet another
indescribably tormenting result of a nation gone haywire...

"By their fruits you shall know them."

[Thunderball]

Its pretty hard to disagree with this article.

People in our Western Society are faced with more choices than ever before, its really quite overwhelming. Society does not prepare us for this, and it starts at home, and is especially prevalent in schools.

Too many broken homes due to selfish people, too much coddling at schools, guess what, some kids can't be doctors and astronauts, and if Little Jimmy failed Grade 4, he should not be placed in Grade 5 because it would be unfair not to. What you end up with are selfish people (learned behavior from mom and dad) who are ill-prepared and have a chip on their shoulder. This can lead to the sort of sociopathic violence we saw in Virginia.

Of course, every generation decries that the one to succeed it will lead to Sodom and Gamorrah. However, we didn't really "boast" this kind of degradation in our society in an era of peace and enlightenment before now.

One thing about the 50s, rightly or wrongly. Everyone had a defined role. Women were women, men were men, children were children. When you think of the "nuclear family", doesn't your mind just go to the typical 50s scene of the man coming home from work, wife preparing dinner, son wanting to toss the football and daughter trying out to be a cheerleader? (Not that this is exactly ideal, just that there were defined roles and expectations)

Take away the roles, and you have what faces us today and in the future. Allan Bloom wrote a fascinating book touching on this, "The Closing of the American Mind."

[Cal-Gal]

When I read that letter, the first thing that came to mind was "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" by Edward Gibbon. Civilizations are bound to rise and fall...its cyclical throughout history. But when you look at the the demise of the Romans (arguably the greatest most powerful society in history) - you can see many parallels to modern Western civilization, the letter this young lady wrote, and the direction we seem to be going.

if anyone is interested : http://www.his.com/~z/gibbon.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_His...e_Roman_Empire

[Daradon]

Ouch, this letter is far to 'faith-driven' for me.

It makes good although obvious points, but doesn't offer much in the way of solutions other than we're not conservative enough?

Give me a break, a lot of the golden ages of society have been during times of great chage, artistic idealism, and religious shifts.

Start by eliminating such easy access to guns in your country and see if that doesn't help first.

'It is AMERICA. It is this culture of death, this culture
in which liberals and feminists and activists are so anxious to let anything
be "OK" that the once tightened, knotted rope of society is unraveling right
beneath us.'

Two different points with no support evidence or tie in, and a cheap shot at a lot of what made that country great in the first place.

[Hack&Lube]

The VT tech guy was described by his professor as "the loneliest guy I have ever seen". or something to that effect. A lot of people in our university systems get isolated and never fit in and never talk to another soul. It's pretty harsh.

The question is not about gun-control people a problem but societal anomie and lonliness and absolute depression making the people pick up the guns.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The VT tech guy was described by his professor as "the loneliest guy I have ever seen". or something to that effect. A lot of people in our university systems get isolated and never fit in and never talk to another soul. It's pretty harsh.

The question is not about gun-control people a problem but societal anomie and lonliness and absolute depression making the people pick up the guns.

I agree, but that's not what the above article said either. I was merely mentioning if you wanted to blame 'liberals or feminists' maybe you should look at gun control laws first.

There are depressed people all over the world. This doesn't happen in other first world countries to the extent either on the scale or frequency.

Just reading the entire article shows this person frame of mind. Very pointed at feminist movements, wanting women in the household raising children. And even going to the point of blaming the femisint movement for 'pushing women to get jobs'.

It's a biased article. Like I said some points, but they're obvious, and no real solutions or insight or even constructive arguments. Just finger pointing and blame laying with a conservative faith-based ideology.

Funny thing is, she for someone crying out against the 'killing as a means to an end,' she certainly hints at supporting her current conservative government.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Its pretty hard to disagree with this article.

No it is not.

Blaming death, violence and school shootings on feminism and a general lack of god-fearingness is silly. The idea that everything was hunky-dory in the 50's was long ago discounted by the former acolytes of Jerry Mathers.

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl wrote that letter. No teenager I've ever known pleaded for harsher discipline, child abuse and more churchiness in their lives.

Tacking on the truly bizarre part about killing Serbian children makes me even more suspicious.

Of course if a teenager actually did write this 8 years ago, she was obviously pretty clever (albeit misguided) and I'm sure she has spent some time outside Hicksville and at a decent university, so she's probably embarassed about this letter now and hopes nobody she knows will bring it up.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl wrote that letter. No teenager I've ever known pleaded for harsher discipline, child abuse and more churchiness in their lives.

There are many in the fundamentalist lifestyle that do unfortunately...

Not that all those things are bad in essense (child abuse ok yes, but stricter discipline no) but yeah she doesn't do much to make her arguments as I've mentioned above.

There are a lot of 'young warriors for God' (and conservatism) though who truly believe this because it's all they been taught, and their probably getting more and more intellectual design in their public funded schools than ever making it harder for them to see other viewpoints. That's more a summary of all current government funded intellectual subversion, but you know what I mean.

[Vulcan]

Didn't read the article but speaking about the fifties or idiolzing any era is pretty stupid in my mind. It wasn't all 'Leave it to Beaver' and 'Father knows best'.
There was open racism, even in Canada, and nobody seemed to know better.
There was no women's rights and any man could divorce his wife, abandon his family, live high on the hog while leaving his family destitute, no problem.
Teen age pregnancies were rampant as their was no pill and abortions were illegal.
The era was stifled and people went about their jobs and lifes unquestioningly. No room for anybody who was a little different.
We had democracy but we were so on edge with the cold war, politicians could manipulate us into thinking anything they wanted. Look at McCarthyism for where Bush got his inspiration.
Higher education was pretty much impossible unless you were wealthy.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

No it is not.

Blaming death, violence and school shootings on feminism and a general lack of god-fearingness is silly. The idea that everything was hunky-dory in the 50's was long ago discounted by the former acolytes of Jerry Mathers.

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl wrote that letter. No teenager I've ever known pleaded for harsher discipline, child abuse and more churchiness in their lives.

Tacking on the truly bizarre part about killing Serbian children makes me even more suspicious.

Of course if a teenager actually did write this 8 years ago, she was obviously pretty clever (albeit misguided) and I'm sure she has spent some time outside Hicksville and at a decent university, so she's probably embarassed about this letter now and hopes nobody she knows will bring it up.

I meant the basic premise that its not violence on TV, videogames, or anything like that which has led to a degraded society, but society itself. I certainly didn't mean (and I doubt she meant) that feminism is wrong, but its no secret that feminism has changed society and blurred the lines quite a bit. Like I said in my response, Allan Bloom wrote a very good book discussing this problem on how "gender roles have been blurred and no one is quite sure how to be a man/woman in today's society." Since the stereotypical "man's man" is a mysogynist dinosaur, and the stereotypical "girly girl" spends hours looking pretty for men and preparing dinner. Very few fit in those roles anymore, and they would definitely be way beyond the mainstream.

Funny you assumed she has to be a biblethumper. The only thing religious she said was "God given days." We've had this discussion enough times, religion =/= conservative, religion =/= morality. Many non-Christians pine for a society that has tougher penalties for disobedience and disorder.

All I said is it is tough to disagree that the opening up of society has not been all wine and roses, and you'd be as naiive as a newborn to deny that. The overwhelming amount of choice and loss of definitive roles has caused a lot of damage to people. Divorce, depression, etc. have all risen substantially since the 1950s.

Funny, what you call "child abuse" was "child discipline" not long ago. Nowadays, rather than slapping one's disobedient kid in the ass for being a brat, people will stand there and try to reason with their child vainly. "Jimmy, stop that please, Jimmy... please... could you... could you stop..." But thats a different discussion. Of course, there's a difference between a spanking and beating a kid about the head with a bat or something.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by redforever

Sorry I dont have a quick link for this. I heard this letter being read on the radio, wrote them for info as to where to get the letter that I heard and they sent the whole letter.

I was really quite amazed at the insight this 18 year old had about all the killings at schools and universities. Yes, it can be argued that most of those who kill have deep psychological problems, but perhaps if our society were a little bit less about "me" and a little bit more about all of us and how we can help one another and be a bit kinder to one another, some of these tragedies might be preventable.

Great article!

Society is paying more attention to these killings. In the Littleton Colorado incident all of the shooters were bullied and ostricised by thier peers. Other shootigs have similar mo's. Schools and parents today are doing more to prevent bullying and recognising that catching this early might prevent other shootings from happening.

[Daradon]

^^^ I'm not sure what the article has to do with bullying though...

Our society definitely needs to be more 'us' and less 'we', but I'm not sure I understand how the article advocates this other than pointing fingers.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Daradon

^^^ I'm not sure what the article has to do with bullying though...

I was merely point out a different view from the author of that poem. It's a common theme amongst alot of these shootings happening in schools.

[Daradon]

Ahhh well I can defintely agree with that.

[Devils'Advocate]

Well, that certainly was the most disgusting piece of tripe I ever read.

In the 1950s these good religious, conservative people were still lynching black people. In the 1950s women who were beaten by their husbands or raped by strangers were dismissed by the legal system. In 1950 the murder rate was 4.6 murders per 100,000 people. That went through the roof maxing out at 10.2 in 1980, and now is back to 5.5. The murder rate in the United States during the Reagan years was the worst ever and has been declining ever since (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html). Now this person wants us to believe that massacre could be avoided if women were forced to not work and stay home with their kids?!?!

BTW - http://www.rushonline.com/visitors/familyvalues.htm
Rush Limbaugh just loves this piece.

I got a chuckle out of making fun of Clinton for his hipocrasy regarding bombing Serbia and giving his condolances for Columbine. I wonder what this persons opinion was of Bush giving his condolances?

[evman150]

Originally Posted by redforever

...something was different about the [sic]1950's.
WE WERE CONSERVATIVE.

There was a lot, not something, different about the 1950s.

Stupidly blatant post hoc fallacy.

[Textcritic]

Ridiculous.

To suggest that the roots of the culture of death in the US are largely political is something worthy of Anne Coultier. If the writer of this letter honestly believes that liberalism is to blame for the catastrophic murder rate in the States, she really needs to get out more. Western Europe is probably the most liberalized political region on earth, and they do not kill one another with alarming regularity. Feminism, abortion, gay-rights, and death with dignity movements are not unique in the US, and yet most of the rest of the world has avoided the same level of seemingly random violence that infects our neighbours to the South. Something is rotten down there, but it is much more complex than this woman has suggested.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl wrote that letter. No teenager I've ever known pleaded for harsher discipline, child abuse and more churchiness in their lives.

wtf - maybe i missed it, but where was she asking for child abuse?!
for that matter, where did she say anything about churchs or the need for harsh discipline?

all i got from it was she doesn't like the apparant self centeredness and the resulting breakdown of the family.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Funny you assumed she has to be a biblethumper. The only thing religious she said was "God given days." We've had this discussion enough times, religion =/= conservative, religion =/= morality. Many non-Christians pine for a society that has tougher penalties for disobedience and disorder.

Incorrect.
The whole piece is concluded with the quote (unattributed in the article) "By their fruits you shall know them." That is Matthew 7: 15-16

[CaptainCrunch]

Not coming in on defense of the letter, because I don't belive that turning back the clock and repressing females out of the work place and some of the other suggestions are the right ones. However I do think that if you look deep down there is a fraying in both societal acceptance, and in the family unit.

I mean lets be frank, how many people let there kids sit in front of a T.V. or Video game for hours at a time after school and never talk to these kids and then act surprised when little Johnny in a fit of depression and lonelyness picks up a family pistol and shoots up his school. No matter kids are depressed and lonely, for the most part we've made it acceptable for them to be in these little fantasy bubbles with no meaningful communication from his folks.

"Hey dad, why don't you go talk to Johnny, he's in the living room watching T.V.", "I would honey, but the taxes are due, and I'm really tired, I'm sure its just normal teenage stuff".

Where were the parents of those two monsters in Columbine, I mean the police went through the house after the killings and found all kinds of guns and bomb making material lying around.

There is a sense of permissiveness in the schools today, where the teachers for the most part don't interact on that personal level with thier students, and everything that they do is ok because failing a kid is bad or sending a kid to the principles office is bad. Or a teacher dosen't want to get involved because he or she is intimidated by the students.

I was over at a friends house and thier kids were in another room watching a truly horrible horror picture in which the girl was raped and tortured. These kids were 10 and 11, I was shocked, and the 10 year old is quite the warmonger, to him guns and war are totally awesome. I don't care about what they watch, but have his parents sat down and watched these shows with him once, to make sure that its not ok in real life to do these things.

Parents are also afraid to get a handle on thier kids, I'm not talking beatings or whippings. But so many parents want to be little cindy's or little bobbies best friends that they put no freaking restraints on thier kids, they go soft on them, or send them to thier rooms for a time out, let me tell you something, when I was growing up I wished that I could get sent to my room, because all of my stuff was there. Parents don't understand why thier kids run wild. Hey stupid its because you encourage them.

With this moron who did the shootings in VT, I blame his parents, he either didn't communicate his depression with him, which means they didn't set up a line of communication with him, or they didn't see the signs.

I blame his fellow students, this kid was writing these bloody awful murder fantasies, and was obviously depressed and nobody intervened.

I blame his teachers and professors, they even said it, they were scared he would snap. Why the hell was he still at the school.

Society failed the victims in this event, and as liberal as it sounds coming from a hawk like me, the shooter to an extent was a victim.

A Liberal society can be a good forward looking thing, but only if there are fundamental controls in the system, and fundamental values.

The letter above was over the extreme, but first and foremost, I hardly think its a letter that should be slammed, and second of all at the very root of it, outside of winding back the clock on certain rights, I agree that society is becoming very much like the ancient romans at the end of the empire, rotted from the inside out.