In Sutter we trust

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I'm not disagreeing with the goaltending being our biggest issue and main reason for points dropped.

I'm disagreeing that every other team doesn't also have a reason for their points dropped.
Vancouver wouldn't be Vancouver "if they had better defence".
Edmonton can say "add 8-10 points if Kane wasn't injured".

There's no alternate universe where the Flames get their extra points to jump up your fictional standings and no one else gets to do the same.

I'm saying its a fine line for the coach...if the goalie plays how he's supposed to and not like the worst starter the Flames have had in 2 decades he still looks like a hero.

"if they had better defense" is far different than if the goalie who was second in vezina voting last season wasn't suddenly replacement level.

Flames absolutely dominated games and lost when they would of won with AVERAGE goaltending. Its not some crazy stretch.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by neo45

It’s not a fine line between being in first and losing more games than you win lol

He’s done a bad job this year. With the forwards, with the goalies, with the media. It didn’t start with the Pelletier comments.


Oh and the games are dreadfully boring, last one excluded, maybe the most boring season of hockey in Flames history. When Hartley was a prick to the players and lost games at least they were fun to watch lol

You miss the Brent Sutter years? One of the most painful time frames.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think it would help if the Flames actually had blue chip prospects that were able to easily graduate to the NHL and become almost immediate impact players. I think if we had a Beniers, Kent Johnson, Zegras, McTavish, Raymond, etc..., Sutter would have no problem playing them lots. The truth is, our best prospects were later picks and were always going to be a few years away.

Given the Flames record so far, Sutter was bang on with his comment that we aren't 10 up or 10 down at this point, making it hard to loosen the reins on players trying to make the massive jump from the AHL to the NHL. As much as fans might not mind seeing a rookie go through the ups and downs of making that jump, Sutter probably gets the the directions as Treliving to "win-now".

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

as long as he plays Coronato next year, we'll be okay

I'm glad he likes pelletier

Too bad he couldn't find something to like about Phillips.. still blows my mind a bit. I've little doubt that kid could help a team

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Good coach with the right type of players, not so good with others. I personally am not a fan based on the style of hockey being played in the NHL now. Emphasis is on speed, skill, and puck movement to high danger areas. Sutter prefers a grinding style with a lot of shots on goal. Problem is this style is too slow and predictable. In a game where mistakes are the difference the Flames play a style where their mistakes are glaring, in the middle of the ice, and end up in the back of the net. On the other side of the puck, when the opposition screws up the Flames are rarely in a good position to capitalize and it results just in more cycle time around the perimeter. I think this team would be better with a coach who demanded a more up tempo quick transition game, one that leveraged the talents of the players on the roster rather than trying to get them to play a game not conducive to their abilities. Just my thoughts.

I think Sutter does want to play an up tempo game. He talks about playing faster and more up tempo. Last year the team played that style very well. So this year it seems to be more on the players because I don't think Sutter would change his style. The puck possession is good and yes they definitely need more high danger chances but again it seems this is a result of individuals and not coaching style. Sutter is not the one telling them to not go to the net, miss the net with shots or just messing up good opportunities to make the goalie make a tough save.When this team plays to there identity, like against the bolts they are a lot more fun to watch and are more successful.They forechecked, had good gaps and played with energy but the issue has been consistency. They looked really good at times and then bang the puck is in the net.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

as long as he plays Coronato next year, we'll be okay

I'm glad he likes pelletier

Too bad he couldn't find something to like about Phillips.. still blows my mind a bit. I've little doubt that kid could help a team

Why wouldn't he like Pelletier? He's a tenacious player that plays a 200ft game with some decent skill to go along with it. He's honest about the challenges of a young player like him and some don't like to hear it. Pelletier is going to be a regular under Sutter - it might take a little more time but he will get there.

There is a much harder road to travel to the NHL for anyone who's even slightly undersized and Pelletier isn't even that small. The problem with Philips is that he is really undersized, and Daryll is challenging him to be better. He could probably stick on an NHL club for a while, but if he works even a little harder to win over this coach, he might actually turn into an impact player at some point.

[Flaming Horse]

Listening to the fan and the gang saying how disappointed they were with Sutters comments. Come on guys he was just playing with the media. Way overblown. Sutter has to be the calming influence because the media and some fans overhype and overvalue these prospects and all Sutter is doing is to put things in perspective and bring the hype down. Way overblown and I think the media is just trying to stir things up because how he makes them look foolish in the media scrums for asking dumb, repetitive questions. Should not even be an issue. This idea of him not wanting young players on the team is very misguided.He has actually done a good job with the young guys.

What I would like to see is a overhaul of of scouts. Tod button needs to go. He has been there even before Sutters first go around.Also a change in drafting philosophy with a higher importance put on speed.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Listening to the fan and the gang saying how disappointed they were with Sutters comments. Come on guys he was just playing with the media. Way overblown. Sutter has to be the calming influence because the media and some fans overhype and overvalue these prospects and all Sutter is doing is to put things in perspective and bring the hype down. Way overblown and I think the media is just trying to stir things up because how he makes them look foolish in the media scrums for asking dumb, repetitive questions. Should not even be an issue. This idea of him not wanting young players on the team is very misguided. He has actually done a good job with the young guys.

Here's the thing...even if he's just playing with the media it was a stupid time to do it.

-The question wasn't a bad question, it's completely fair to ask that after a players first game.

-It was a young player playing his first game, why take the risk of doing a "troll" that could come off as being disrespectful, even if it was meant to be a joke.

I have no problem when Sutter decides to be a crank with the media at times, especially when people like Francis or Wills ask stupid questions (Wills question about Makar the other day was horrible), but there was no upside to being cranky with that question, and just was unnecessary.

And it's all individual perspective but I'm not sure how it can be said he's done a good job with the prospects. They were buried in the training camp, didn't get games with real NHLers, and none of them have been given more than a short look since.

Even Ruzicka got demoted when he was playing at a point per game clip at the first time he showed any sort of struggles.

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

What I would like to see is a overhaul of of scouts. Tod button needs to go. He has been there even before Sutters first go around.Also a change in drafting philosophy with a higher importance put on speed.

The Flames have actually been top 5 in drafting since Sutter left as GM under Tod Button.

Hockey prospecting has a good view of this but the Flames rank in the top 5 in stars drafted (Gaudreau, Fox, Tkachuk, Monahan), and the top 5 in players drafted in that time frame even though they rank in the 20s in picks made.

And we have the best team in the AHL led by prospects like Phillips, Zary, Pelletier, and Wolf - all looking like strong picks.

The drafting has been fine - the issue is we haven't had enough picks (Thanks Hamonic trade!)

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Here's the thing...even if he's just playing with the media it was a stupid time to do it.

-The question wasn't a bad question, it's completely fair to ask that after a players first game.

-It was a young player playing his first game, why take the risk of doing a "troll" that could come off as being disrespectful, even if it was meant to be a joke.

I have no problem when Sutter decides to be a crank with the media at times, especially when people like Francis or Wills ask stupid questions (Wills question about Makar the other day was horrible), but there was no upside to being cranky with that question, and just was unnecessary.

And it's all individual perspective but I'm not sure how it can be said he's done a good job with the prospects. They were buried in the training camp, didn't get games with real NHLers, and none of them have been given more than a short look since.

Even Ruzicka got demoted when he was playing at a point per game clip at the first time he showed any sort of struggles.



The Flames have actually been top 5 in drafting since Sutter left as GM under Tod Button.

Hockey prospecting has a good view of this but the Flames rank in the top 5 in stars drafted (Gaudreau, Fox, Tkachuk, Monahan), and the top 5 in players drafted in that time frame even though they rank in the 20s in picks made.

And we have the best team in the AHL led by prospects like Phillips, Zary, Pelletier, and Wolf - all looking like strong picks.

The drafting has been fine - the issue is we haven't had enough picks (Thanks Hamonic trade!)

He did bring unnecessary attention to himself but I feel the comments were overblown.I also don't like how there's a standard it seems for young guys and vets. Lucic can make all the mistakes he wants and stone and nothing happens but other young guys like Mackey make one and they are bumped.Ideally there should be the same standard for all. You made some good points but I will disagree about the drafting. To many small and not fast players in the system.Need to be able to find more impactful players with more upside outside of the first round. Dallas found Robertson and Hintz in the second round.

[dino7c]

Lucic was scratched for multiple games...with his contact it's not like they can move him off the roster

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dino7c

standings are so tight with better goaltending earlier in the season the Flames are in 1st and Sutter is still a genius

Its such a fine line its ridiculous

Boudreau on speed dial?

[redmile04]

[QUOTE=Flaming Horse;8576221Remember Oliver kyllington [/QUOTE]

Remember, Oliver Kylington was waived? We are lucky he didnt put up his 30 plus points elsewhere, very lucky.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sutter's personality and the way he goes about dealing with the media rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Understandably so.

So, when the wins aren't piling up like they were last season, those people start to get very noisy and are out for blood.

He doesn’t need to pander to the single ply snowflakes.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Reigning Jack Adams Trophy winner.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

What I would like to see is a overhaul of of scouts. Tod button needs to go. He has been there even before Sutters first go around.Also a change in drafting philosophy with a higher importance put on speed.

Our first round draft picks specifically could be better. Seen too many teams just before and just after us pick guys that are looking like they'll make an impact in the NHL

That's not to write off Pelletier or Zary, I think both crack the league. but it will likely be in a 3rd line type capacity. I'm just a little tired of teams around us scouting out the studs in the back 2/3 of the first round

We could really use a bit HIT on one of those 15-25 range picks, since we're becoming pretty thin on guys that could be considered blue chip or anywhere close

On the other hand, I've liked our depth picks over the years (although the last couple years not quite as much.. a little too Sutter-y for my taste), and finding & making NHLers out of Kylington, Mangiapane, Andersson, Dube has contributed to our competitiveness today

you can look back futher to guys like Gaudreau and Brodie too

[blender]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Remember, Oliver Kylington was waived? We are lucky he didnt put up his 30 plus points elsewhere, very lucky.

Lots of player get waived, clear and go on to be successful NHLers.

It's a reach to try and find fault here.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Reigning Jack Adams Trophy winner.

Yup, the kiss of death for any NHL coach.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

You made some good points but I will disagree about the drafting. To many small and not fast players in the system.Need to be able to find more impactful players with more upside outside of the first round. Dallas found Robertson and Hintz in the second round.

Since Sutter was fired as GM and under Tod Button the Flames found Fox, Gaudreau, Kylington, Andersson, and Mangiapane, and Dube in round 2 or later.

Sure the drafting has had it's ups and downs, but as a whole it's been good, especially considering the lack of picks. The issues they've had drafting have tended to be when they draft for size instead of skill.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it would help if the Flames actually had blue chip prospects that were able to easily graduate to the NHL and become almost immediate impact players. I think if we had a Beniers, Kent Johnson, Zegras, McTavish, Raymond, etc..., Sutter would have no problem playing them lots. The truth is, our best prospects were later picks and were always going to be a few years away.

Given the Flames record so far, Sutter was bang on with his comment that we aren't 10 up or 10 down at this point, making it hard to loosen the reins on players trying to make the massive jump from the AHL to the NHL. As much as fans might not mind seeing a rookie go through the ups and downs of making that jump, Sutter probably gets the the directions as Treliving to "win-now".

If we just had a guy like Jordan Kyrou (who put up a PPG in his first two years as a pro in the AHL in his D+3 and D+4 years) and was called up in his second year as a pro full time. A guy like that would be perfect to try full time.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I think it’s rarely the coaches fault when things go sideways. But it is their job to fix it.

If the Flames can’t get their crap together Sutter will deserve plenty of criticism.

Everything else is mostly stories people tell themselves. As it was when lots of things went right last year and everyone thought he was a genius.