Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well you are wrong that they traded 1 year of Tkachuk because the 8 year extension was part of the deal and was a sign and trade. I said it was a win-win trade. Florida is still in win now mode. They got the best player in the deal now and moving forward. Calgary is also in win now mode which is why they pursed this deal that gave them the best veterans being offered. Neither team is living up to the preseason hype but both want to win now

From Flames perspective it was one year of Tkachuk...come on now. He signed because he knew he was going to Florida

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Not exactly because it could easily be another pick going to the Habs instead of the Florida pick.

Yeah i understand the need to lump everything together when evaluating the trade but that's not really how I look at it.

The Tkachuk trade
The contracts for Huberdeau and Weegar
The Monahan trade
The Kadri signing

Yes there was certainly a sequence but it's impossible to know what the other options were.

If you want to evaluate the off season as a package, for sure I get that. But you can also look at each of these events in isolation too.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

From Flames perspective it was one year of Tkachuk...come on now. He signed because he knew he was going to Florida

Well any team that was trading Tkachuk were getting the 8 years. If it was Florida, Carolina, St.Louis etc. Any team getting him was getting that long term deal or the deal wouldn’t have happened because any other team would have had to inherit the arbitration case and 1 year deal.

I still think it was a great deal based on how last season went. Where we disagree is I believed it was a great deal from Florida’s perspective as well

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well you are wrong that they traded 1 year of Tkachuk because the 8 year extension was part of the deal and was a sign and trade.

If that is indeed true, the Flames should have just kept him.

But of course it isn't.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If they were taking multiple shots at the cup like Dino suggests they were not trading them at the deadline and losing them for nothing like the Flames did with Gaudreau. They moved out a guy who will be 30 at the time of extension and another guy turning 30.

Moving them at the deadline wouldn’t return a franchise winger in his prime signed to a max term extension.

Florida did not have their top center or top Dman for 10 games each. Maybe that is a reason they are struggling?

You said Florida only had to give up a first round pick to get Chucky. That's incorrect regardless of how you try to spin it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If that is indeed true, the Flames should have just kept him.

But of course it isn't.

Obviously it wasn’t an option for the Flames but any team that was acquiring him was getting him for 8. The list he provided were the teams he was willing to sign with and that is the list the flames negotiated trade with Hence the first ever sign and trade

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You said Florida only had to give up a first round pick to get Chucky. That's incorrect regardless of how you try to spin it.

Not what I said.

Florida gave up 2 key players that they needed to make a decision on. They moved those players and a 1st and a prospect to get the best and youngest NHL talent in the deal

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Not exactly because it could easily be another pick going to the Habs instead of the Florida pick.

It wasn't though.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It wasn't though.

What do you mean? Based on the conditions it could be the Flames 1st next year going to Montreal. The condition piece wouldn’t have been complicated at all if it was the Florida pick going out. It may be the Florida pick, it may be a Flames pick

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What do you mean? Based on the conditions it could be the Flames 1st next year going to Montreal. The condition piece wouldn’t have been complicated at all if it was the Florida pick going out. It may be the Florida pick, it may be a Flames pick

so either way the Flames will have a first

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

so either way the Flames will have a first

Not denying that. We will see what they give up when the conditions are met but hopefully whenever the Habs get it the result is a pick in the 20’s.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Not denying that. We will see what they give up when the conditions are met but hopefully whenever the Habs get it the result is a pick in the 20’s.

well you did imply the Flames are going 3 years without a first like the Panthers which is obviously not true. 2023 is looking to be some kinda draft, I wouldn't want to be in 11th place without one right now...doesn't sound like a team building for the future to me.

[Vinny01]

There is absolutely a scenario where they pick this year and not in 22 and 24 based on the conditions and may not get to use the Florida pick until 2026. I didn’t say they would pick 3 years in a row as I struggle to see a scenario where they move this years first.

Florida may acquire a pick in the next 3 years as well so no guarantee they don’t pick in the next 3 drafts.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There is absolutely a scenario where they pick this year and not in 22 and 24 based on the conditions and may not get to use the Florida pick until 2026. I didn’t say they would pick 3 years in a row as I struggle to see a scenario where they move this years first.

Florida may acquire a pick in the next 3 years as well so no guarantee they don’t pick in the next 3 drafts.

[Strange Brew]

Looks like Florida has been creeping up the standings and their remaining schedule no longer the toughest in the league.

It's remarkable how the two teams are in near identical spots in the standings after that trade.

[CroFlames]

Where is Padme Monahan? Is he safe, is he all right?

Spoiler!

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Looks like Florida has been creeping up the standings and their remaining schedule no longer the toughest in the league.

It's remarkable how the two teams are in near identical spots in the standings after that trade.

turns out it was a lose-lose trade, at least short term

I don't think they could get better out of Tkachuk than they have to start though, whereas the Flames have loads of room to grow

[dino7c]

Buffalo is two back of Florida with 3 games in hand
Pens are 3 up with 2 in hand

Divisional spots are out of reach

Panthers are in a way worse spot than the Flames, there are far more teams the Flames can reasonably catch

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Let’s bring it back to the beginning of this argument

My POV: Florida made a good trade

Your POV: Florida should not have made this move

Your argument: the Panthers are worse this year so it was a bad move

My reply: they made a lot of changes and play in the toughest division in the league so it goes beyond this trade to why they are struggling.

Florida got the best player in the deal now and moving forward. Calgary got a nice return that allowed them to stay on a win now path. Both teams are no where near they were last year.

Florida’s core is 21-27 and Calgary’s is 26-32.

If you want to nitpick on certain sentences of a post and turn the argument and claim goalposts are being moved is your prerogative. It doesn’t change the fact they added the 8th highest scoring player in the league last year (youngest player in the top 20 NHL scorers). Good move for them in my opinion.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Buffalo is two back of Florida with 3 games in hand
Pens are 3 up with 2 in hand

Divisional spots are out of reach

Panthers are in a way worse spot than the Flames, there are far more teams the Flames can reasonably catch

Flames play in a weak division, Florida the best. 1st in the Pacific is 4th in Atlantic. Last in Atlantic are better than 3 teams in the Pacific