You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I guess, but like most low-grade anxieties, if you take the time once to think about it critically and realize “hey, this actually doesn’t matter, nobody will judge me and their opinion doesn’t impact me if they do.” The cure isn’t complaining about the thing, the cure is cutting off the internal thinking process that creates anxiety about it.

You only have to do it once, too. I pick up a pizza and don’t even notice the tip option anymore. The only time i notice is when I already know I want to tip. Otherwise it’s just a screen to clear.

Sure but given the proliferation of tip options on POS’s it appears that people are terrible at doing the above.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I get not liking tipping, but it's the culture we live in. You normally tip 0-10%? That's embarrassingly low if you're at a restaurant relying on the service of a waiter or waitress. They need to make more than that on average to earn enough to afford a basic life. I guess I'm picking up your slack. Thanks.

I don't know how we get out of this tipping culture we've boxed ourselves into, but I do know what doesn't work, which is withholding money from 20-year-old young men and women just trying to get by.

That 20-year-old girl working a busy night at some restaurant as a bartender or waitress, do you know how much she makes in tips? I know girls who regularly made hundreds in tips in a night.

Why is 10% embarrassing low? Why does that waitress deserve to make 3-4x more than someone else with no education needed for the job at home depot or sobeys? Aren't the people making bank (hello every pretty girl I knew in university who made a #### load of money as a waitress and never declared tips to the CRA) doing ok? Should I feel sorry that they should have made extra? Why do they make a lot more money than the person in the kitchen actually preparing the food?

The way you're doing mental gymnastics to put the onus on people by claiming they're "withholding money" from waters or waitresses because some don't pay them an automatic minimum of 15% extra to do a job they are already getting paid to do is crazy. If you're so concerned for people affording a "basic life" next time you're out make sure you hand a few bucks to your hostess, the bus boy and head on back to the kitchen and pay the cooks.

[Roughneck]

Getting to the point we need to do the summoning spell?


Springs1
Springs1
SPRINGS1

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

If you're so concerned for people affording a "basic life" next time you're out make sure you hand a few bucks to your hostess, the bus boy and head on back to the kitchen and pay the cooks.

You are aware of what a "house tip-out" is, right? The hostess, table bussers, and kitchen already get a percentage of the servers' tips.

[topfiverecords]

Tipping should be a percentage of their wage and not the bill. Tip on the bill far exceeds the hourly wage in most cases.

You make $15/hr. Out of kindness I’d like to top you up a bit to $17.25 for your hours work serving me. Check with your other tables you’ve served this hour and if they do the same you might be well into the $20+ /hr range. Pretty good for an entry level job. Need more? Ask your employer to fill the gap.

Why is it $15 wage + hundreds in tips?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

That 20-year-old girl working a busy night at some restaurant as a bartender or waitress, do you know how much she makes in tips? I know girls who regularly made hundreds in tips in a night.

Why is 10% embarrassing low? Why does that waitress deserve to make 3-4x more than someone else with no education needed for the job at home depot or sobeys? Aren't the people making bank (hello every pretty girl I knew in university who made a #### load of money as a waitress and never declared tips to the CRA) doing ok? Should I feel sorry that they should have made extra? Why do they make a lot more money than the person in the kitchen actually preparing the food?

The way you're doing mental gymnastics to put the onus on people by claiming they're "withholding money" from waters or waitresses because some don't pay them an automatic minimum of 15% extra to do a job they are already getting paid to do is crazy. If you're so concerned for people affording a "basic life" next time you're out make sure you hand a few bucks to your hostess, the bus boy and head on back to the kitchen and pay the cooks.

You make a good point, the people working at Sobeys and Home Depot should be making way more than they currently are

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

That 20-year-old girl working a busy night at some restaurant as a bartender or waitress, do you know how much she makes in tips? I know girls who regularly made hundreds in tips in a night.

Why is 10% embarrassing low? Why does that waitress deserve to make 3-4x more than someone else with no education needed for the job at home depot or sobeys? Aren't the people making bank (hello every pretty girl I knew in university who made a #### load of money as a waitress and never declared tips to the CRA) doing ok? Should I feel sorry that they should have made extra? Why do they make a lot more money than the person in the kitchen actually preparing the food?

The way you're doing mental gymnastics to put the onus on people by claiming they're "withholding money" from waters or waitresses because some don't pay them an automatic minimum of 15% extra to do a job they are already getting paid to do is crazy. If you're so concerned for people affording a "basic life" next time you're out make sure you hand a few bucks to your hostess, the bus boy and head on back to the kitchen and pay the cooks.

So now we have police people and make sure they’re putting their tips on their tax return, as well as providing good service?

I just want to enjoy my meal (or whatever), and I add 20%. If they have a good night and make $200, good for them. Maybe they can survive making $500 a week in tips and it’s like $40k a year. Great, and I’m certainly not begrudging anyone making a living in the service industry. More than likely, those big nights are once a week, and at certain times of the year. A snowy, frozen Tuesday in February they’re not making that kind of cash!

[Johnny199r]

double post

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You are aware of what a "house tip-out" is, right? The hostess, table bussers, and kitchen already get a percentage of the servers' tips.

I am aware. Why don’t all parties share an equal percentage? Why do servers get the most?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You are aware of what a "house tip-out" is, right? The hostess, table bussers, and kitchen already get a percentage of the servers' tips.

Yes, but tip out is 6-8% of bill total so with a 15% tip the server gets half and the rest of house gets have and given that the rest of the house is somewhere between 3-5x the number of people the rest of the house gets a few dollars an hour where the server gets significantly more.

Also it makes anyone who tips less than around 8% regardless of level a service a thief.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I am aware. Why don’t all parties share an equal percentage? Why do servers get the most?

Originally Posted by GGG

Yes, but tip out is 6-8% of bill total so with a 15% tip the server gets half and the rest of house gets have and given that the rest of the house is somewhere between 3-5x the number of people the rest of the house gets a few dollars an hour where the server gets significantly more.

Also it makes anyone who tips less than around 8% regardless of level a service a thief.

Service staff generally have a lower base hourly wage than kitchen staff, so it stands to reason they would keep more of their tips given the risk to them is higher.

And yes, tipping below a certain amount puts the server in the hole for that table.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Slava

So now we have police people and make sure they’re putting their tips on their tax return, as well as providing good service?

I just want to enjoy my meal (or whatever), and I add 20%. If they have a good night and make $200, good for them. Maybe they can survive making $500 a week in tips and it’s like $40k a year. Great, and I’m certainly not begrudging anyone making a living in the service industry. More than likely, those big nights are once a week, and at certain times of the year. A snowy, frozen Tuesday in February they’re not making that kind of cash!

That's great you feel that way.

I don't understand why I should be expected to pay someone $16 in tips for an 80-dollar meal (20%) because I ordered the steak instead of $8 in tips because I got a 40-dollar meal (20%). The exact same amount of work for a server, yet double the remuneration. Did it require more effort? more skill? Nope.

This whole system is ridiculous. Why we don't operate like European restaurants and reject tipping culture is baffling. "But that's just the way it's always been here" is a great response.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You make a good point, the people working at Sobeys and Home Depot should be making way more than they currently are

Yes. Raise the minimum wage for everyone and get rid of tipping.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Yes. Raise the minimum wage for everyone and get rid of tipping.

I’m not sure I understand why employees of those multibillion dollar companies should be making minimum wage but I do agree that tipping isn’t a fair compensation model. It just puts the financial risks on the worker to the benefit of their employer.

[Strange Brew]

As a consumer, tipping gives you more control of the cost of your purchase. You want to build it into the price of your meal, ok fine but I don’t see how that ends up being better for consumers. Unless you believe people in the service industry should make less money.

[TorqueDog]

I also don't like the tipping model in principle.

That said, I'm sure those service industry employees in spots with particularly lucrative income from their tips have a different opinion.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Yes. Raise the minimum wage for everyone and get rid of tipping.

K I'll get right on that.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

As a consumer, tipping gives you more control of the cost of your purchase. You want to build it into the price of your meal, ok fine but I don’t see how that ends up being better for consumers. Unless you believe people in the service industry should make less money.

When tipping is effectively mandatory, which it is, it eliminates control for the consumer. The only control is whether you’re gonna tip 18 or 20%.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by GGG

This isn’t quite true. At bars and upscale restaurants you pull in a crazy amount of money for having no formal education or training. If your goal is to provide a standard of living then you should be tipping at all minimum wage professions. The server and a decent place is making $100- $200 a night in tips after tip out over 4hrs for a $40- $65 an hour wage.

The person working at the till in your grocery store makes $15-$20.

The cooks, especially junior ones in kitchens get screwed for the quality they produce.

(As an aside I tip flat rate with no change for quality of service at 12% an increase to 18 in jurisdictions where minimum wage is below $15 per hour)

Former high school buddy went straight into the host/waiter business at a high end Calgary steak restaurant. Had lots of rich and famous people including NHL players. Was making about $60k/yr. Back in early 1990’s. Tax free cos it was mostly cash. If it was a pre tax amount that woulda been about $90k/yr.

Around 5 yrs later after I’d finished post secondary my salary was a bit under $35k/yr. Then taxed. So yeah some serving and restaurant people, at the right place and with the right skills, can do quite well. But most don’t.

Anyways, most definitely the tipping thing has gotten outa control the last 5 years. Recently one of the “options” I saw firsthand was for 25%. Im still thinking 10 is good and 15 exceptional. And takeouts… my guilt these days has me feeling a need to leave 5-10% but maybe that was Christmas tipping guilt.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

That's great you feel that way.

I don't understand why I should be expected to pay someone $16 in tips for an 80-dollar meal (20%) because I ordered the steak instead of $8 in tips because I got a 40-dollar meal (20%). The exact same amount of work for a server, yet double the remuneration. Did it require more effort? more skill? Nope.

This whole system is ridiculous. Why we don't operate like European restaurants and reject tipping culture is baffling. "But that's just the way it's always been here" is a great response.

Yeah, the system is not great, and I completely agree. But I’m not taking my frustrations out on servers. I also agree on the steak vs. a burger or beer vs. a coke. I just think if they’re serving and making a “lot of money” they’re either working harder, good servers or both.