Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[kukkudo]

The Panthers are not doing well because of a poor coaching hire. Tkachuk is doing his thing

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk has been every bit the elite player they acquired. Neither player the Flames got looks that great. He is 5 years younger than Huberdeau and plays a physical style.

Florida is not doing poorly because they are missing Huberdeau

Their own fans have admitted they are doing poorly in part because they are missing Weegar.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Tkachuk couldn't be playing any better and they are a bubble team without a first round pick for 3 seasons

You make it sound like that is the only move they made. Hiring the most overrated coach in the NHL is their first problem. They lost a lot of other players who they couldn’t afford and spent huge assets on. Florida is a great example why going all in on rentals is a terrible move. Trading 28/29 year olds who want retirement contracts for a rare type of 24 year old is a nice move.

Many declared the Flames improved in the offseason and they are on the bubble with the Huberdeau contract quickly looking like the worst deal in the entire league.

[kukkudo]

We want to make fun of the Panthers being a bubble team but the Flames are in the same spot and were supposed to compete for the division.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk has been every bit the elite player they acquired. Neither player the Flames got looks that great. He is 5 years younger than Huberdeau and plays a physical style.

Florida is not doing poorly because they are missing Huberdeau

Lol okay, he was only their top scorer by 30 points...top scorer for the last 5 years. They certainly miss both guys, probably Weegar the most because Tkachuk is replacing the points but their back end is a disaster. Then add another first so they don't have one for years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

We want to make fun of the Panthers being a bubble team but the Flames are in the same spot and were supposed to compete for the division.

For the 10,000 time the Flames didn't chose to lose Gaudreau and Tkachuk. In fact they would have given them more money to stay

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Saqe

This year was always going to be a retool for them because of their cap situation. And they were expected to be worse although given how Huberdeau and Weegar have played this year I don't think the gap is that big compared to what Tkachuk is doing on his own. And the next seven years is where it is at for them obviously.

It's not all coaching, it's also been goaltending for them. But like Belichick said: good players can't overcome bad coaching and Maurice has been a horrible fit so far. Literally every player is playing worse than last year maybe with the exception of Forsling (and Tkachuk obviously). That's not coincidence.

This makes no sense. This year:

Huby+Weegar = 9.15M
Tkachuk+league min = 10.25M

So FLA took on a little more than 1M in extra cap this year in this deal. JH vs MT can be argued either way, but the difference is definitely Weegar and any of their league min guys is definitely greater.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol okay, he was only their top scorer by 30 points...top scorer for the last 5 years. They certainly miss both guys.

Tkachuk is on pace to match his 108 from last year which is only 7 less than Huberdeau scored as a career high and Huberdeau is on pace for 59pts for the Flames which isn’t even close to what he is paid for now let alone his massive increase.

Florida sold high and are positioned much better for the future because of it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk is on pace to match his 108 from last year which is only 7 less than Huberdeau scored as a career high and Huberdeau is on pace for 59pts for the Flames which isn’t even close to what he is paid for now let alone his massive increase.

Florida sold high and are positioned much better for the future because of it.

His numbers in Calgary are irrelevant, why keep talking about Calgary? Again they were forced, I am talking from a Florida perspective.

When you win the presidents trophy and trade multiple firsts to win now the trade doesn't make a ton of sense IMO.

You keep acting like losing Weegar was nothing, have you seen their D? Their future was now, they had been building for years already.

Any good team could trade their top players for younger ones and be better for the future but when you are at the top of the league you gotta go for it a few times IMO. They traded all their draft capital to win now and then traded current players to win later. (Maybe). How are they going to get back to being a top team with no draft picks? Tkachuk is 5 years younger but they also traded 3 first's. He will be close to 30 by the time they can build it back up if at all.

We can agree to disagree but I dont see the Panthers as a top team anytime soon

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk is on pace to match his 108 from last year which is only 7 less than Huberdeau scored as a career high and Huberdeau is on pace for 59pts for the Flames which isn’t even close to what he is paid for now let alone his massive increase.

Florida sold high and are positioned much better for the future because of it.

The Panthers went from the very best regular season team to a team that won’t make the playoffs. As a result of the trade they also traded away their only first round pick in the next three seasons (assuming they aren’t a lottery team).

So as a result of the trade they certainly got a great player, no one debates that, but the team went into a freefall with one of the biggest collapses in league history (seriously look at how many teams fall down 40 points in a single off-season while not tanking). They also have no first round picks for the foreseeable future. Whatever the Panthers did, they shouldn’t be boasted about yet lol.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk has been every bit the elite player they acquired. Neither player the Flames got looks that great. He is 5 years younger than Huberdeau and plays a physical style.

Florida is not doing poorly because they are missing Huberdeau

I'd argue the Flames aren't doing poorly because they are missing Gaudreau and Tkachuk either.

Flames are struggling because our save percentage is 24 points lower YoY.

Last Year:
27-13- 6
GF: 156
GA: 110
Shots For: 1657
Shots Against: 1343
xGF%: 55.3%
Shooting %: 9.4%
Save %: .918

This Year:
21-16-9
GF: 140
GA: 136
Shots For: 1608
Shots Against: 1285
Shooting %: 8.7%
Save %: .894

Goaltending has been the biggest issue this year. We don't even need the .918 save percentage we got last year.

Even if we just had a .910 save percentage that would mean that we allowed 115 goals against instead of 136 goals against.

Considering we've played the most 1 goal games in the league I feel like having 21 fewer goals against would make a pretty substantial difference this year. Feel like that easily turns 3 OT losses and 3 regulation losses into wins and we'd have the same record as last year then.

Also in terms of Tkachuk and Huberdeau comparisons here is one that is interesting to me:

Tkachuk first season with Sutter:
GP: 30
Points: 22 (0.73 PPG)

Huberdeau first season with Sutter
GP: 43
Points: 31 (0.72 PPG)

It's long forgotten now but Tkachuk was demoted in those first 30 games with Sutter, complained about ice time, and generally didn't look very good. Not easy to adjust to playing under Sutter as an offensive winger sometimes.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

His numbers in Calgary are irrelevant, why keep talking about Calgary? Again they were forced, I am talking from a Florida perspective.

When you win the presidents trophy and trade multiple firsts to win now the trade doesn't make a ton of sense IMO.

You keep acting like losing Weegar was nothing, have you seen their D? Their future was now, they had been building for years already.

Any good team could trade their top players for younger ones and be better for the future but when you are at the top of the league you gotta go for it a few times IMO. They traded all their draft capital to win now and then traded current players to win later. (Maybe). How are they going to get back to being a top team with no draft picks? Tkachuk is 5 years younger but they also traded 3 first's. He will be close to 30 by the time they can build it back up if at all.

We can agree to disagree but I dont see the Panthers as a top team anytime soon

I don’t think signing 30+ players to 8 year deals is the way to extend windows. Look what happened to LA and Chicago when they locked the cup winning cores up to massive raises for their 30’s. The teams became irrelevant. Florida has Barkov, Tkachuk, Lundell, Knight and Ekblad as core pieces. Bennett and Reinhart are support pieces in their mid-20’s. They have the benefit of being a tax haven and likely a desirable destination for free agents.

I disagree significantly their best move was running it back with 2 pending UFA’s and signing both to 8 year deals like the Flames did. Calgary had no choice in their pursuit to win now and not face the same challenge that happened with Gaudreau with Huberdeau and Weegar.

Calgary and Florida have similar records and Florida plays in a far more competitive division. The Pacific leading Kraken would be 4th in the Atlantic and the last place Canadiens are better than the Canucks, Sharks and Ducks.

I can’t think of a team in the league that would take Huberdeau at $10.5M for the next 8 years and Weegar at $6.25M for the next 8 years over Tkachuk at $9.5M for the next 7.

I think both teams overachieved last year and Florida decided to make changes and Calgary was forced. The Flames right now (key words I hope that changes) look to have made the wrong call pursing older players vs a younger building block like Necas. The fact the Flames look so far from being an elite team paints a dark future with unmovable old players

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'd argue the Flames aren't doing poorly because they are missing Gaudreau and Tkachuk either.

Flames are struggling because our save percentage is 24 points lower YoY.

Last Year:
27-13- 6
GF: 156
GA: 110
Shots For: 1657
Shots Against: 1343
xGF%: 55.3%
Shooting %: 9.4%
Save %: .918

This Year:
21-16-9
GF: 140
GA: 136
Shots For: 1608
Shots Against: 1285
Shooting %: 8.7%
Save %: .894

Goaltending has been the biggest issue this year. We don't even need the .918 save percentage we got last year.

Even if we just had a .910 save percentage that would mean that we allowed 115 goals against instead of 136 goals against.

Considering we've played the most 1 goal games in the league I feel like having 21 fewer goals against would make a pretty substantial difference this year. Feel like that easily turns 3 OT losses and 3 regulation losses into wins and we'd have the same record as last year then.

Goaltending and giving up glorious scoring chances has hurt this team. Last year they had an elite first line and this year they do not have a single elite player

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

The Panthers went from the very best regular season team to a team that won’t make the playoffs. As a result of the trade they also traded away their only first round pick in the next three seasons (assuming they aren’t a lottery team).

So as a result of the trade they certainly got a great player, no one debates that, but the team went into a freefall with one of the biggest collapses in league history (seriously look at how many teams fall down 40 points in a single off-season while not tanking). They also have no first round picks for the foreseeable future. Whatever the Panthers did, they shouldn’t be boasted about yet lol.

Winnipeg went from missing on the bubble to first place in the west while making very little roster changes. Paul Maurice is the most overrated coach in the league and the primary reason Florida is bad. They are also having goaltending woes like the Flames.

[Saqe]

The Panthers absolutely do not miss Huberdeau, Tkachuk has more than replaced him. On pace for 40 goals and 100 points now the second time in a row, something Huberdeau has never done or probably never will do. I certainly don't miss Huberdeau's overpassing and long stretches of games when he only shows up to collect a garbage secondary assists on the powerplay. Tkachuk brings so much more and has been a breath of fresh air.

Weegar on the other hand the Panthers do miss, they simply couldn't replace him this year do to their cap situation. Whether they can find a replacement next year remains to be seen.

Like Vinny above said, the Panthers' woes this year have by and large been due to coaching and goaltending.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'd argue the Flames aren't doing poorly because they are missing Gaudreau and Tkachuk either.

Flames are struggling because our save percentage is 24 points lower YoY.

Last Year:
27-13- 6
GF: 156
GA: 110
Shots For: 1657
Shots Against: 1343
xGF%: 55.3%
Shooting %: 9.4%
Save %: .918

This Year:
21-16-9
GF: 140
GA: 136
Shots For: 1608
Shots Against: 1285
Shooting %: 8.7%
Save %: .894

Goaltending has been the biggest issue this year. We don't even need the .918 save percentage we got last year.

Even if we just had a .910 save percentage that would mean that we allowed 115 goals against instead of 136 goals against.

Considering we've played the most 1 goal games in the league I feel like having 21 fewer goals against would make a pretty substantial difference this year. Feel like that easily turns 3 OT losses and 3 regulation losses into wins and we'd have the same record as last year then.

Also in terms of Tkachuk and Huberdeau comparisons here is one that is interesting to me:

Tkachuk first season with Sutter:
GP: 30
Points: 22 (0.73 PPG)

Huberdeau first season with Sutter
GP: 43
Points: 31 (0.72 PPG)

It's long forgotten now but Tkachuk was demoted in those first 30 games with Sutter, complained about ice time, and generally didn't look very good. Not easy to adjust to playing under Sutter as an offensive winger sometimes.

So, even though Tkachuk was quite young, was demoted, generally didn't look good and complained about ice time, he still managed as many points PG as a seasoned star coming off a 115 point season.

I'm not sure it's an apt comparison as Tkachuk was a young player on the rise, and Huberdeau is a player who's aging curve may have already started. I think that's the elephant in the room, whether Huberdeau will rebound.

[dino7c]

Tkachuk is 25 not 19 and not exactly the best skater

Panthers better hope they can become a top team again soon...which will be tough after trading 3 firsts including 2023

Also the Panthers goaltending isn't even bad considering the style they play

Tkachuk replacing (maybe) Huberdeau's points doesn't make up for Weegar and a 1st

From a Tkachuk standpoint it really couldn't be going any better for them and they are in 10th place with no draft lottery to look forward to

Nailed it!

Lets also be real here, Tkachuk wouldn't have 58 points if he was here playing in this system on a line with Lucic

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

This makes no sense. This year:

Huby+Weegar = 9.15M
Tkachuk+league min = 10.25M

So FLA took on a little more than 1M in extra cap this year in this deal. JH vs MT can be argued either way, but the difference is definitely Weegar and any of their league min guys is definitely greater.

The narrative changed from

"they brought in Tkachuk to put them over the top against Tampa"

to

"this was always going to be a re-tool" or some nonsense...a retool with no first rounders until Tkachuk is 28

there are a lot of up and coming teams in the East, I don't think the Panthers are one of them and they obviously aren't good enough now so GL with that.

[FanIn80]

^^ Your Tkachuk-related responses in this thread just read like "Tkachuk kicked my dog!"

Like I don't know if realize you're doing it or not, but it's pretty hard to take you seriously on the Tkachuk stuff.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The narrative changed from

"they brought in Tkachuk to put them over the top against Tampa"

to

"this was always going to be a re-tool" or some nonsense...a retool with no first rounders until Tkachuk is 28

there are a lot of up and coming teams in the East, I don't think the Panthers are one of them and they obviously aren't good enough now so GL with that.

The Panthers are two points out of playoff spot right? I am reading that correctly? Like a similar position to the Flames?