[PGT] Avalanche 4 Flames 1

[bubbsy]

I’m curious why markstrom/vladar topic is popping up in this thread? I didn’t think markstrom could be faulted for any of the goals. The loss felt 100% on the weak defending and weak offensive play of the other members of the team.

I’m not a big fan of markstrom, but he’s getting unnecessary criticism directed at him, and he should be absolutely pissed with the team’s play when he’s playing…

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I’m curious why markstrom/vladar topic is popping up in this thread? I didn’t think markstrom could be faulted for any of the goals. The loss felt 100% on the weak defending and weak offensive play of the other members of the team.

I’m not a big fan of markstrom, but he’s getting unnecessary criticism directed at him, and he should be absolutely pissed with the team’s play when he’s playing…

Yeah, I don't feel like the team has to "scramble to save Markstrom". Most games it's the opposite, except he hasn't been able to do enough.

[MillerTime GFG]

Honest question, with no ill-intent - those that have been optimistic throughout the year - are you remaining optimistic?

This seemed like such a benchmark game. Such an important game...and we no-showed. Dominated by a team missing potentially their best player.

Reading through these pages, I'm seeing less "oh here comes the overreactions!" comments. Wondering if sentiment is starting to shift...

[SuperMatt18]

Sutter is a great coach but I think Erick Estrada nailed it with "Sometimes I get the feeling he would rather lose his way than win if it meant doing things things differently."

The stubborness is hurting the team right now.

-Markstrom has struggled. There is no argument there. Vladar should be playing more.

-System wise he needs to try to inject some creativity. His comments around "we don't have skill, so we have to play for volume" has to be so draining if you're a player. Let these guys take some risks.

-Reliance on veterans. This one hurts in two ways. He refuses to shorten the bench when down late in games (Lucic/Lewis getting ice in the final 3 minutes of a game), and plays them too many minutes. And refuses to play Pelletier or Phillips due to age / size / stubborness when they are proving at the AHL level that they deserve a chance to help at the NHL level.

I still think there is a good team here - but Sutter needs to be open to making some adjustments and actually let the team take a bit more risk offensively and bring up some youthful exuberance to help out.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The two star players got replaced with a 115 point player a 87 point player playing a premium position. A 40 point defenseman.

Do those players suddenly suck?

Those coaches had Mike Smith, Cam Talbot, and Brian Elliott.

Markstrom has sucked, but he also has another goalie who is 7-0-3 in his last 10 starts but he continues to play the guy who sucks.

Kadri is on pace for a record number of goals. He isn't suddenly sucking. Huberdeau is taking some time to adjust that's for sure. Can you see how uprooting a core of a team and swapping it out isn't guaranteed to be an immediate success?

I would like to see Vladar play more too but I get it. If Markstrom gets his game back wouldn't you say his ceiling is one of the highest in the NHL? There is still half a season and Sutter has more patience than I would but he is a cup winning coach so he is entitled to that.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Honest question, with no ill-intent - those that have been optimistic throughout the year - are you remaining optimistic?

This seemed like such a benchmark game. Such an important game...and we no-showed. Dominated by a team missing potentially their best player.

Reading through these pages, I'm seeing less "oh here comes the overreactions!" comments. Wondering if sentiment is starting to shift...

Nothing has changed.

They've still been a very good hockey team for the last 7 weeks.

4th in xGF% since December 1st (5 on 5), 3rd in all situations.

Now they have back to back games where they had lapses. It's about correcting it or not.

I'm not one to flip flop all over the place from game to game.

My view has never changed. They've largely got their game under control and are playing well most nights (can't have the stats above without that), but may lack the finish to do much about it this season.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Nothing has changed.

They've still been a very good hockey team for the last 7 weeks.

4th in xGF% since December 1st (5 on 5), 3rd in all situations.

Now they have back to back games where they had lapses. It's about correcting it or not.

I'm not one to flip flop all over the place from game to game.

My view has never changed. They've largely got their game under control and are playing well most nights (can't have the stats above without that), but may lack the finish to do much about it this season.

Curious and because I don’t know how to find it, but where do they rank in actual goals scored / game since Dec 1st?

I see a team that can generate chances, not always good ones, but has a real problem finishing them. The line is so razor thin when the other team has finishers or game breakers it seems inevitable.

So I think we align on that.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Who realistically would trade for Huby’s contract?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...&postcount=180

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Did previous coaches have two star players leave for the States and a goalie come back with the yips after a previous season in which they were Vezina runner up?

Jonathan Huberdeau - 1.44 pts/g ------> 0.72 pts/g
Nazem Kadri - 1.23 pts/g ------> 0.76 pts/g
Mackenzie Weegar - 0.55 pts/g ------> 0.27 pts/g

He also has a goalie available that has given his team points in 11 of his 14 starts (against tough competition) that he is unwilling to give the net to.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Boom.

Thank you for this thoughtful analysis. I see it the same way too, especially since I know what Huberdeau was like before coming to Calgary.

This is 100% on coaching. I don't have a major issue with Darryl's overall philosophy, but he is incredibly rigid and he forces guys like Huberdeau to completely change their game to fit his system and philosophy. Like a good soldier, Huberdeau is doing what is asked of him, but it's not taking his strongest attributes into account and this is why he doesn't look like a "100 point player" here. It's a severe lack of imagination on Sutter's part.

Seriously, some of the quotes in this thread I want to save and throw back in people's faces regarding Huberdeau. You can tell who watches games other than Flames' games and who does not. Just some embarrassing posts to read that will definitely not age well.

Also, who the hell wants to get rid of Weegar? He's easily our best defender at denying zone entry. Just so effortless anytime the puck comes to his side of the ice. He takes it away and send the puck the other direction.

Good for you that you see it that way. No way I believe that. You've been reading too many of his old press clippings.

[Young Guns]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I’m curious why markstrom/vladar topic is popping up in this thread? I didn’t think markstrom could be faulted for any of the goals. The loss felt 100% on the weak defending and weak offensive play of the other members of the team.

I’m not a big fan of markstrom, but he’s getting unnecessary criticism directed at him, and he should be absolutely pissed with the team’s play when he’s playing…

He looks like a guy that has lost a lot of confidence in himself. Lets 1-2 muffins in each game. Usually on the 1st or 2nd shot of the game. Deflates the whole team forcing them to play catchup. Kicking out huge rebounds, fumbling routine shots, going for the big save and sliding right out of the crease.

I think he could defiantly be faulted on a couple of the goals last night. Avs should of went up 4-0 when he misplayed the puck behind the net. Seems any puck near the net, he flops down to his knees.

Doesn't look like Sutter has any intentions of playing Vladar more and just hoping he figures it out soon.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Kadri is on pace for a record number of goals. He isn't suddenly sucking. Huberdeau is taking some time to adjust that's for sure. Can you see how uprooting a core of a team and swapping it out isn't guaranteed to be an immediate success?

I would like to see Vladar play more too but I get it. If Markstrom gets his game back wouldn't you say his ceiling is one of the highest in the NHL? There is still half a season and Sutter has more patience than I would but he is a cup winning coach so he is entitled to that.

He is on pace for 30 goals he has scored 32 goals twice before and had 28 in 71 games last year. His 62 point pace would be his 2nd best season by 1 point.

When you get elite players you build a system and style that gets the best out of them. Right now wants us to play like the La Kings. If we had big bruisers and big skill players that would be ok, we don't.

Time to open the game up and allow them to play a more high risk game or its time for a new coach.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Good for you that you see it that way. No way I believe that. You've been reading too many of his old press clippings.

Mackenzie Weegar ranks 2nd among all defensemen in the NHL in shots against per 60. His ability to suppress and defend off transition is absolutely elite.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

Curious and because I don’t know how to find it, but where do they rank in actual goals scored / game since Dec 1st?

I see a team that can generate chances, not always good ones, but has a real problem finishing them. The line is so razor thin when the other team has finishers or game breakers it seems inevitable.

So I think we align on that.

15th 5on5
12th all situations

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Good for you that you see it that way. No way I believe that. You've been reading too many of his old press clippings.

Who needs press clippings when you can just look up stats.

He's an elite suppression defenseman. All data points to just that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

15th 5on5
12th all situations

Do you have the difference in rush chance and goals from last year to this? Seems to be a significant difference.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Which paints a pretty spooky picture in replacing the current coach doesn't it?

It just means that other organizations do a better job at hiring and evaluating coaches. Bruins seem to go from good coach to good coach. Same with Vegas.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He is on pace for 30 goals he has scored 32 goals twice before and had 28 in 71 games last year. His 62 point pace would be his 2nd best season by 1 point.

When you get elite players you build a system and style that gets the best out of them. Right now wants us to play like the La Kings. If we had big bruisers and big skill players that would be ok, we don't.

Time to open the game up and allow them to play a more high risk game or its time for a new coach.

Sounds like you agree that with Kadri he is on pace for one of his very best seasons. And he may even set a career high for goals.

[Flamesfan05]

Kadri is having a good year

At the same time he is proving last year was an outliner.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He is on pace for 30 goals he has scored 32 goals twice before and had 28 in 71 games last year. His 62 point pace would be his 2nd best season by 1 point.

When you get elite players you build a system and style that gets the best out of them. Right now wants us to play like the La Kings. If we had big bruisers and big skill players that would be ok, we don't.

Time to open the game up and allow them to play a more high risk game or its time for a new coach.

We lost two "elite" players and gained a skilled passer in Huberdeau, a defenseman who is playing good defence and a guy who is having a great season under Sutter in Kadri.

Are you suggesting they change the style of play to match Huberdeaus style only? It seems the rest of the team isn't set up to play that way like it or not. I don't think this team has the offensive talent to open it up and play that way. Especially when they have a struggling starter and an unproven back up.