[PGT] Avalanche 4 Flames 1

[3rd liner]

After reading the super negative game thread, then finally able to watch the game on PVR I don’t think the flames played that bad in the third. A few folks need to step away from the ledge. I’m as frustrated by the flames poor play as the next guy. But take away that s****y call on stone which led to third goal and the flames had some chances. Georgiev was shaky, flames had chances. Yes Avs are missing makar and landeskog but they have freakin rantenen, mackinnon, toews etc. I’m way less worried about this loss than the Blackhawks, blues and preds losses. BTW- **** you rantenen you whiny loser.

[Classic_Sniper]

Well that game can go straight into the garbage. No Makar, yet no problem for the Avs I guess. The guy plays like half the game and somehow the Avs dont miss a beat. The Flames really blew quite the advantage there by stinking the place up.

I think this game was just another prime example of the Flames not being in the same league as other teams when it comes to star power. In a long 82 game season, during the dog days of the season, sometimes you just need your superstars to win you some mundane games once in a while and that’s exactly what Rantanen (3 points) and Mackinnon (2 points) did for the Avs tonight.

The Flames on the other hand do not have these kinds of superstars. They have to work hard every game to order to win and that’s a difficult way to win in this league because other teams get paid to play too. I looked at some stats and I’ve come to the conclusion that 3+ point games seems to be key to victory. Now I haven’t looked into it in depth, but looking at a few Flames’ skaters over the last couple seasons, there does seem to be some correlation.


2021-22 (3+ point games)
Tkachuk: 15 = 15 wins - 0 losses
Gaudreau: 14 = 14 wins - 0 losses

2022-23 (3+ point games)
Lindholm: 4 = 4 wins - 0 losses
Toffoli: 2 = 2 wins - 0 losses
Kadri: 2 = 2 wins - 0 losses
Huberdeau: 1 = 1 win - 0 losses


Probably a small sample size, but it does show how vital 3+ point games can be to winning hockey games.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I’m beginning to believe the only reason it “worked” is because he put Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk together - the best line in all of hockey. It was so good, that 2 of the 3 bailed on the organization.

Sutter is not running a meritocracy this season. Lucic went from the press box to the “top” line. Sutter really isn’t doing anything this year. He rolls 4 lines endlessly, even when the situation desperately requires something else.

I don’t think we have a lazy culture. Everyone on the team is working hard. The problem is that they’re being told to dig straight up.

I’ve actually held this same belief for a long time now, dating all the way back to the 2021 shortened season. I still remember the marked shift I felt when Darryl played that trio for the first time, as if the team finally had a chance to win games. It’s hard to believe how much one great line can influence the overall impact of a game. But then again, we experienced it first hand when we saw McDavid-Draisaitl-Kane singlehandedly win the BoA last spring.

As much as I do like Sutter’s systems, realistically, coaching strategies can only take a team so far. I don’t think the overall difference in systems can overcome the overall difference in roster construction.

[sonq]

If this doesn't drive Sutter to change the lineups and let Vladar start a few, then yeah, I don't know. Super important game and they let it slip away, just like that. Sigh

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Highlight of the night.

Early in the 2nd period the organist was playing the Muppets theme song. I was singing along to it in my head and then realized that he was playing the middle part where the old guys chime in.

Why do we always come here?
I guess we'll never know
It's like a kind of torture
To have to watch the show

This guy gets it. That’s my avatar for a reason.


I have no hope for this group. Last year got me somewhat excited but the tachuck fight with klingberg sealed our fate. One good round and that team was history. Even then we made that goalie look like Ken freakin Dryden. Edmonton knew they were in our heads and our team missing it’s heart in Tanev was dead to rights. I thought a healthy tachuck does offset some of the bad play but good riddance to that guy.

That last iteration wasn’t a team that could make the good teams squirm. The better teams all knew how to play us. We could only really take advantage of favourable matchups and didn’t know how to be hard to play against. Once Tanev was injured no one could step up. Anderson and hanifin are never going to be elite. Even watching them lately how bad they are vs good teams is telling.

It was a year of over achievers while our American superstars saw Stars and Stripes and a way out. Tre didn’t have the cajones to trade him at the deadline and didn’t have the cajones to ride out a bad roster for a better pick in a loaded draft.

Now we are stuck with weegar. How many people were calling him a number one? Man I have never felt so cheap even entertaining that notion. Huberdeau is a complimentary player but one who’s gonna get paid 10 plus a year.

While our home grown other yankee is lighting it up in Miami. He will be happy to play in obscurity down there. They never win a cup in his prime I guarantee.

I can’t believe that was the best deal. Eichel for him should have been the deal.

Meanwhile our team is in the middle again. Flames sure know how to bring them into the stadium though. We will happily accept any product because we may lose our beloved flames. I commend each of you paying to go watch these poor saps go out there and beat bad teams and then get rolled on by the cream of the league year in year out.

Lindholm is not a superstar so don’t pay him like one. Anderson and hanifin are middling.I’d trade them both while they have some value. We are wasting the best years of Tanev. Markstrom is shell shocked. Huberdeau isn’t rantanen and why kadri looks average and nothing like a 90 point play driver. This team isn’t good enough. We probably get creamed by Tampa even without six regulars.

This team needs to bite the bullet and be bad. Sadly we won’t be bad when the next prodigy is up for grabs yet again. Watch Columbus get him.

They need to trade assets as I have been saying for some time. This team as constructed has little speed and creativity and can’t play smothering defence. What are we as a result? Just impotent and flaccid.

Only thing that gets me excited in alberta regarding hockey lately is mcdavid leaving in 3 years then at least the coil fans will be back to their misery alongside us. At least by then we may be on our way to actually finding blue chip talent. Yay pettiness.

Game was a measuring stick and we brought a stick to a gun fight. Colorado pwns us. That 2018 /19 season was their coming out party and they haven’t forgot who they got their groove from. They got it by beating us and destroying that group that won the west that year. Now look at that team: monny, Johnny, chucky, Benny , all gone. This new group of misfit toys are a costly one. Recoup assets. These guys aren’t winning anything save for golf tourneys in the summer.

I have been really less intense and interested this year. I see my excitement waning even more. These guys are an easy out. Sutter is counting his days to leave these clowns in the dust. No heart and no captain. No one deserves it besides Tanev but he’s gone soon. What a mess of a team.

[sonq]

Oh, and Sutter did not say that Markström has a better save %. He said he has a better GAA.

[WhiteTiger]

Well, at least this wasn't the total blowout I was expecting to wake up to. Still not good, though

[sonq]

The last 2 starts with Marky in net, Flames have scored 2 goals. The last 2 starts with Vladar in net, Flames have scored 10 goals. I mean it could be coincidence, bad luck, etc, but it has been brought up several times that they score more with Darth starting. At this point in the season, I would say that there is quite a strong correlation.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He's been disappointing, but he has very strong defensive metrics this season - for a player who was mocked for his defensive play in prior seasons.

Outside of some turnovers, is he really not doing what Darryl is telling him?

Seems to me like he's bought into Darryl Sutter hockey.

I agree. I think he is having almost a perfect Darryl Sutter season. Before we know it he will be an elite checker. He has proven anyone who thinks he is not a coachable player wrong.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Living in Ontario means 9pm game starts... Haven't really felt inclined to stay up for Flames games this season. Going to bed angry/disappointed and being tired the next day isn't worth it. Most games I lose interest halfway through the game and just have the game on in the background.
Playing some young guys like Philips and Pelletier would at least get my attention, regardless of results

[madmike]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

Living in Ontario means 9pm game starts... Haven't really felt inclined to stay up for Flames games this season. Going to bed angry/disappointed and being tired the next day isn't worth it. Most games I lose interest halfway through the game and just have the game on in the background.
Playing some young guys like Philips and Pelletier would at least get my attention, regardless of results

Same here. I’ll admit I’m watching more Leafs than Flames at this point.

[Toonage]

To borrow from another thread, if you don't want to take sports to too seriously, maybe avoid Saturday's game against the Bolts.

Thoughts from last night:

Markstrom. He looks an awful lot like Ramo out there right now. Can't stretch his legs and swimming through the crease, flying way out of position. Looks hurt, but I'm not sure he is.

Regardless, Vladar will probably start against Tampa. And then lose and we won't see him for a few games as Darryl has his justification to go back to his veteran #1.

But man, how can anyone watch these games and not think the team doesn't play differently in front of Vladar.

Pinder on Afterburner seems to have it right. One goalie lets in an early one, the other keeps you in it longer off the start. Thats why they play differently right there I suppose.

None of this really matters I guess. The team is going to lose Saturday and probably be flat on Monday unless Darryl makes some line up changes. And even then, its just going to be shuffling whose already in so how much of a difference is it really going to make?

I voted that the team will make the playoffs. The division around them isn't great. Opportunity is there. Just not so sure they should. Right now against anyone I suspect it would be a waste of 8 days.

[Saqe]

Regarding Huberdeau:


It's a bad systems fit without a doubt, saw it since the first few games. But last year inflates his stats and generally I feel like this leads to a a pretty big misconception about him. People keep saying he's a 115 point player and even though he did score that many, he really isn't. Last season was a total anomaly where he as an offensive winger played on the highest scoring team in 25 years with linemates that had career years. In reality he's been about a PPG+ player if we look at the four years prior to that from ages 24 to 28, which can be considered his prime years.

Now the Flames are getting him at the tail end of it and he's asked to change his game. I've noticed how some people talk like it's a good thing that he's now "elite" defensively and I can't help but roll my eyes. Sure, he's asked to focus on defense like Sutter demands but at what cost? Here you have a player that has 10 years of experience and success in the league playing a certain way and now you're trying to make him do things differently, maybe it works with some but I don't see any signs of it working with Huberdeau.

I don't think he has lost his skills and can go back to being a PPG player but just don't see it happening under Sutter. Which is enough to get him fired since the organization just committed eight years and 85 million to Huberdeau.

[Toonage]

The Flames aren't firing Sutter, but knowing Huberdeau's agent I suspect we'll see tweets suggesting his client wants out after the season.

[memphusk]

You really get the feeling that this is just a job for most of this team. Nobody cares about personal accolades. Nobody cares about the big picture. Go to work, get paid. Team needs a Mackinnon or a Makar. Some real fuel.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The Flames aren't firing Sutter, but knowing Huberdeau's agent I suspect we'll see tweets suggesting his client wants out after the season.

Good. Too bad nobody will want him.

[sonq]

Originally Posted by memphusk

You really get the feeling that this is just a job for most of this team. Nobody cares about personal accolades. Nobody cares about the big picture. Go to work, get paid. Team needs a Mackinnon or a Makar. Some real fuel.

Really? Who gives you that impression? Because I see a lot of frustrated players there. A person who does not care, does not show emotion of frustration or emotion of any kind

[madmike]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Good. Too bad nobody will want him.

Yeah that's the issue - Huberdeau is going nowhere with that contract, unless the Flames eat a bunch of it, which is unlikely.

[Bonded]

Will need a 7+ game win streak soon to make sure they get in the playoffs

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by madmike

Yeah that's the issue - Huberdeau is going nowhere with that contract, unless the Flames eat a bunch of it, which is unlikely.

I'm betting Montreal, who is in that portion of a Canadian team rebuild where they're likely ready to try and contend (ie: way too soon) would still want him, even at that price. They'll likely go after Dubois too. But thats another topic.