Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Slava

It’s not that Canada gets a free pass, but why would we willing cripple ourselves knowing that we have that minor impact? It’s just plainly stupid.

It’s easy to blame China and India, but I am sure if we were doing the manufacturing to feed the rampant consumerism of the world, we wouldn’t be the mere speck that we are.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

Am I wrong or is the 'Just Transition' program optional for workers?

Yes, and they might as well have hung and quartered a rig pig in the town square according to some conservatives.

“They’re killing us! They’re killing our industry with optional support programs for people looking to retrain!”

But you can tell a topic is bringing out the absolutely idiotic dregs of CP when StickMan shows up.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

It’s not that Canada gets a free pass, but why would we willing cripple ourselves knowing that we have that minor impact? It’s just plainly stupid.

So why do we spend money on literally any issue facing our society? like I said, we will be a fraction of any issue facing the world.

We should stop spending money on jails because we likely have a fraction of the number of criminals that most other countries have.

Or we should stop building homeless shelters and programs for the poor because Canada has a lot less instance of poverty than most other countries.

We'd save a ton of money if we stopped doing anything about these issues, but we do what we do, because its the right thing to do. We don't wait around for China to solve its homeless problem first. I can't believe I have to type this out. This line of thinking doesn't make any sense.

Besides, I'm not viewing this as an all or none situation. I do not think anyone in their right mind would promote instantly stopping fossil fuel use and production. It's insane and literally impractical. But it's a transition. Something that may take decades to transition off of. The earlier we start, the better we are set for at the end.

In my mind I'm thinking of those rust belt regions in the states that got hit hard by the loss of coal or auto production. These places clung onto their single main employment opportunity until it died and did not transition well. And people suffered. I'd like to see Alberta thrive into the future. And to me that means, making the most out of oil and gas while we can, while also putting one foot through the door into other avenues of a future economy. To me it doesn't mean we cut oil altogether, it means we transition slowly to where the world seems to be going. Or else we're going to be left behind like so many other examples around the world.

This doesn't mean I trust the Liberals or JT to get us there properly.

But as a reality check, I mean we're talking about an optional program for workers. This is literally a tiny step towards the transition, and I fail to see how this program will be 'crippling' to our province. If this upsets people, just wait until we actually start to transition in the decades to come.

[craigwd]

Also, if you take the lead on the transition by developing cutting edge tech and efficient processes, the Chinas and Indias of the world will eventually have to follow your lead by investing in your tech.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

It seems odd then that the general reaction from industry to Trudeau’s meetings with Germany and Japan were generally negative, also the new emission targets set forth by the Environment Ministry. Or did I honestly misunderstand that reaction? Not the UCP or Smith but industry itself.

Do They see no business case in exporting LNG to Europe and are thumbs up with the coming legislation and likely all it entails?

Sitting at the table and being happy with what is said aren't always inclusive. Are we talking about not being at the table or not being happy?

Just saying because I know fairly well in agriculture it doesn’t sound that way, at least not last year when the agriculture caps were announced. Then backed off due to outrage.

Nobody really backed off. Outrage died down when they realized that the 'cap' wasn't a mandate Early response was indeed hostile because people saw 'reduction target' and thought "cap" and that we would all starve, but that wasn't what was being proposed. Reducing inputs with better application technology is something the industry is already pushing towards

[RedHot25]

Alberta is business. And in business, you anticipate the market, see where the market is going and head that way, heck even set the market forward in where it changes.

And, fast or slow or somewhere inbetween there is a change going on with oil, the climate stuff and all related. Even Alberta's Minister of the Environment, who upto a few months ago was the province's Minister of Energy, perhaps THE most important (real or perceived) ministry portfolio in Alberta outside of finance, even is admitting it (see last page or two for the tweets on her interview).

But yet, while we are business, and generally businesses in Alberta are already adapting and moving forward, using foresight to where the market is going, being leaders to be on the cutting edge of the market....we, as the government in this province, do the exact opposite. We kick and drag our heels. No don't provide available training for where the market is going, no please don't.

Alberta, as a government and as a people, needs to be proactive and realize where the market is going. Otherwise our stubborness may leave us with a bit of power or money now, but sooner or later, all that clout, all that power, all that everything is going to disappear. And we'll be left behind everyone.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Alberta is business. And in business, you anticipate the market, see where the market is going and head that way, heck even set the market forward in where it changes.

And, fast or slow or somewhere inbetween there is a change going on with oil, the climate stuff and all related. Even Alberta's Minister of the Environment, who upto a few months ago was the province's Minister of Energy, perhaps THE most important (real or perceived) ministry portfolio in Alberta outside of finance, even is admitting it (see last page or two for the tweets on her interview).

But yet, while we are business, and generally businesses in Alberta are already adapting and moving forward, using foresight to where the market is going, being leaders to be on the cutting edge of the market....we, as the government in this province, do the exact opposite. We kick and drag our heels. No don't provide available training for where the market is going, no please don't.

Alberta, as a government and as a people, needs to be proactive and realize where the market is going. Otherwise our stubborness may leave us with a bit of power or money now, but sooner or later, all that clout, all that power, all that everything is going to disappear. And we'll be left behind everyone.

I’ll take my chances with the O&G reserves of Saudi Arabia and a different country coming every diff month to beg for our resources.
Again what exactly are you transitioning to besides buzz words?

[Ozy_Flame]

I'd tell you in Filipino but you wouldn't understand.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Slava

It’s not that Canada gets a free pass, but why would we willing cripple ourselves knowing that we have that minor impact? It’s just plainly stupid.

We're 9th in the world in GHG emissions per capita. We absolutely should be doing something

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I’ll take my chances with the O&G reserves of Saudi Arabia and a different country coming every diff month to beg for our resources.
Again what exactly are you transitioning to besides buzz words?

You talk! And missed my point.

I'm not saying transition completely tomorrow. But the current reaction is....way over the top, to say the least. No one's shutting off the taps first tomorrow morning. Its not going all or nothing. And I mentioned that.

Change is coming, whether we want it or not, and....its never to early to start to prepare. Or we can continue to just freak out on the far side of the extreme, critizing others for doing exactly what we are: "ohhhh no, can't ever consider that...oh no no ...boogey man..."

[Ozy_Flame]

On point:

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Also, if you take the lead on the transition by developing cutting edge tech and efficient processes, the Chinas and Indias of the world will eventually have to follow your lead by investing in your tech.

This is complete BS pot of gold at the end of the rainbow talk. China’s not paying $*it for our tech. When the time comes they’ll steal it, like they did for everything else.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

Am I wrong or is the 'Just Transition' program optional for workers?

Yes, I guess, depending on what exact "program" you mean.

Just Transition is more a broad philosophy at this point with the goal to be transition away from fossil fuels in such a way that it limits the negative effect of the workers and communities reliant on that sector.

So, for example, the Task Force on Just Transition for Canadian Coal Power Workers and Communities consulted with those in the industry and communities that will be affected by the transition away from coal. After consultation it came up with a number of the biggest concerns facing these communities and recommendations for the government to implement that would limit these concerns.

From the report:

One of the key concerns we heard was a lack of information that would allow coal workers to effectively plan for what is to come. Workers, families, and communities struggle to find examples of successful transitions that they can use as a road map. While some were hopeful about the future, many more were pessimistic. Timely, accurate, and trustworthy information from employers and governments would help to reduce anxiety and give workers greater assurances when making decisions for themselves and their families.
...
In travelling across the country, we heard not only about the fears and concerns of workers and communities, but also about what has worked in some previous workforce transitions. We learned how locally-run transition centres that opened following the closure of other industries were an important resource and space to facilitate information sharing and service delivery. Workers, governments, and community representatives recognized these centres as a proven model to deliver consistent yet context-appropriate and flexible services and information, covering everything from re-employment opportunities and skills recognition, to educational and financial services, and healthcare. We heard how important it is that these centres be locally driven and adequately resourced to offer a broad range of services delivered by qualified personnel that understand and appreciate local conditions.

Therefore a recommendation from the task force was to fund the establishment and operation of locally-driven transition centres in affected communities.

As a result of that task force the GOC committed 185M to the just transition of coal with 35M going to skill development and economic diversification so far.

[OptimalTates]

My absolute favourite though was how the task force heard from those too late in the career to transition but too early to retire. Therefore recommendation 5 is to create a pension bridging program for workers who will retire earlier than planned due to the coal phase out. Whether the GOC intends to implement it or not, I'm not sure.

But his is what Smith is trying to scare us with. "Oh no the Just Transition program is going to help me financially if I lose my job due to the mine being shut down!"

Once again one of the reasons that simply being contrarian to Trudeau is of no benefit to Alberta. Trudeau could announce tomorrow a 100B investment into Alberta and Smith and the UCP would convince half the population of Alberta that money is bad.

[Fuzz]

Ghada Haggag, a pharmacist who owns All Care Pharmacy in Capilano, says parents are no longer going on exhaustive searches to find the medicine.

She had 10 bottles of formulations for different age groups on the shelves of her small pharmacy on Tuesday morning.

"It is way better than November or December," she said. "It's slowed down. Because the stock is everywhere now."...

..."We don't need it," she said of the Turkish drug shipment. "We don't need to pay extra for it or to push for it. I don't think there is an urgent demand for it now."

Aidan Hollis is a University of Calgary economics professor who researches competition and innovation in pharmaceutical markets.

He says the province should have consulted with Health Canada about regulatory timelines and talked to private wholesale importers about their supply before making the purchase...

...Hollis said the province will likely "take a bit of a bath" on the cost of buying so much of the product.

"Which means the taxpayers of Alberta will be the ones paying the price," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ssed-1.6717329

How do the fiscal conservatives feel about this one? Smart move by a brilliant tactician, or just another Smith screw up?

[PsYcNeT]

Can someone who understands the motivations of this government explain whether this is incompetence, racism or both?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615478207473647618

Yoho, you hate Asian people, which one is it do you think?

[Fuzz]

The NDP should buy it and gift it back to the province once these racist incompetent bigots get voted out.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

So why do we spend money on literally any issue facing our society? like I said, we will be a fraction of any issue facing the world.

We should stop spending money on jails because we likely have a fraction of the number of criminals that most other countries have.

Or we should stop building homeless shelters and programs for the poor because Canada has a lot less instance of poverty than most other countries.

We'd save a ton of money if we stopped doing anything about these issues, but we do what we do, because its the right thing to do. We don't wait around for China to solve its homeless problem first. I can't believe I have to type this out. This line of thinking doesn't make any sense.

Besides, I'm not viewing this as an all or none situation. I do not think anyone in their right mind would promote instantly stopping fossil fuel use and production. It's insane and literally impractical. But it's a transition. Something that may take decades to transition off of. The earlier we start, the better we are set for at the end.

In my mind I'm thinking of those rust belt regions in the states that got hit hard by the loss of coal or auto production. These places clung onto their single main employment opportunity until it died and did not transition well. And people suffered. I'd like to see Alberta thrive into the future. And to me that means, making the most out of oil and gas while we can, while also putting one foot through the door into other avenues of a future economy. To me it doesn't mean we cut oil altogether, it means we transition slowly to where the world seems to be going. Or else we're going to be left behind like so many other examples around the world.

This doesn't mean I trust the Liberals or JT to get us there properly.

But as a reality check, I mean we're talking about an optional program for workers. This is literally a tiny step towards the transition, and I fail to see how this program will be 'crippling' to our province. If this upsets people, just wait until we actually start to transition in the decades to come.

Honestly, a lot of your point here is a giant red herring. Issues like crime or homelessness are very different problems than climate and environment. Because they're different, they have to be addressed differently.

I think that the issue with "Just Transition" is the narrative. Here we have a government (federally) that is saying "hey, all we're doing is preparing for a day when the resource sector isn't here, and you should be thankful that we're thinking ahead." Sounds great, and makes sense. the problem is that this is the same government that has put a lot of the impediments up for that sector. They're addressing a problem that they're at least exacerbating if not outright creating.

This is why this isn't well received by a lot of people. They're seen to be "fixing" an issue that they've created.

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

We're 9th in the world in GHG emissions per capita. We absolutely should be doing something

Per capita is not a good measure though. We have a smaller population in a northern climate, so of course things look worse that way.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Can someone who understands the motivations of this government explain whether this is incompetence, racism or both?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615478207473647618

Yoho, you hate Asian people, which one is it do you think?

In fairness other than clothes, it is hard to tell North & South Korea apart......

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

In fairness other than clothes, it is hard to tell North & South Korea apart......

Obviously the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is the good one, because it has Democratic right in it's name. So it only makes sense to break ties with the Republic of Korea, aka 'the bad Korea'. Right?