[PGT] Flames 4 - Blues 1. Duehr’s 1st NHL Goal

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

This is what Hartley did with Ramo and Hiller and it just worked.

Vladar has 14 out of a possible 16 points in his last eight starts. I think he should be afforded the opportunity to run with the crease for an extended period of time. He's earned it - although you just know that he will be out of the net if he has a tough performance.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Vladar is now 19th in GAA and 23rd in SV%

he's worked his way up to being in the starter tier

[blankall]

Originally Posted by dino7c

In the past for sure but this season? I will give you Rooney

Lewis is good
Ritchie on a 16 goal pace
Lucic bad until his scratch, good since coming back and they are kinda stuck with him for this year

2 guys from the AHL are in the lineup...3 in the last few games. Maybe just not the ones people want I guess.

I would give Pelltier a look but how do you change anything from the lineup tonight? I would stick with it for Dallas

Ritchie looks okay...he's been with the team for 3 years though. He's competent and you can call him up when you need him. However, penciling him in for any kind of permanent role is a mistake.

I don't think we should go drastic and just put prospects in for the sake of it. I was more commenting on the general trend over the last 15 (?) years of having useless vets in the lineup, and not giving enough spots to developing prospects. Seemed to be a habit the Flames established after having so many years in a row of awful awful drafting. Now the drafting is better, and the kids still aren't getting enough chances.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

When the score is within one goal:

Vladar has a GAA of 2.59
Markstrom has a GAA of 2.92

Vladar gets more run support, not because they "feel more comfortable" but because he keeps the Flames in a better spot score-wise to capitalize. For instance, in yesterday's game, the Coleman goal was the back-breaker for the Blues. Vladar had maintained a 2-1 game.


Who knows if Coleman scores that third goal if it is a 2-2 or 2-3 game? The Blues would not necessarily be playing as risky and making that turnover that lead to that goal, if the Blues were the one with the lead.

Lindholm scored an empty-netter because the Blues pulled their goalie, because the score was 3-1

The Blues don't pull their goalie if the score is 3-3, and this game thus goes to overtime.

The correlation between goaltending and run support is more than just how players "feel" in front of a goalie. It affects how opponents play.

100%

And the stat that supports what you are saying? Their records. It's about winning, and they win more when Vladar is in the net. Obviously, a LOT goes into winning vs losing, but when your goalie is making the big save at the key time, the team will react positively.

This is why Gretzky always talked about Fuhr making the big save - he didn't care how many goals Fuhr let in, only that he could be counted on to make the big save when it was needed.

That is the difference between Vladar and Markstrom right now

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

100%

And the stat that supports what you are saying? Their records. It's about winning, and they win more when Vladar is in the net. Obviously, a LOT goes into winning vs losing, but when your goalie is making the big save at the key time, the team will react positively.

This is why Gretzky always talked about Fuhr making the big save - he didn't care how many goals Fuhr let in, only that he could be counted on to make the big save when it was needed.

That is the difference between Vladar and Markstrom right now

The last two games against the same opposition was the perfect example to be honest.

Vladar held down the fort long enough to let the team turn a 1-1 tie into a 3-1 lead in the third period.

Markstrom did the opposite and let in two soft goals to turn a 3-1 lead into a 3-3 tie early in the third.

Based on stats the quality against they faced was about the same.

Game 1 vs Game 2
Shots: 27 vs 26
xGA: 2.38 vs 2.54
GA: 4 vs 1

Vladar held the fort so the team could have a 3-1 win (before the EN), and Markstrom did the opposite and turned what was a 3-1 lead and what should have likely been a regulation win into a 4-3 OT loss.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The last two games against the same opposition was the perfect example to be honest.

Vladar held down the fort long enough to let the team turn a 1-1 tie into a 3-1 lead in the third period.

Markstrom did the opposite and let in two soft goals to turn a 3-1 lead into a 3-3 tie early in the third.

Based on stats the quality against they faced was about the same.

Game 1 vs Game 2
Shots: 27 vs 26
xGA: 2.38 vs 2.54
GA: 4 vs 1

Vladar held the fort so the team could have a 3-1 win (before the EN), and Markstrom did the opposite and turned what was a 3-1 lead and what should have likely been a regulation win into a 4-3 OT loss.

Yup. The soft goal that made it 3-2 changed the game, and the way both teams played.

The goal that made it 1-1 last night didn't change the game because it wasn't soft, it was just lucky. Vladar was playing well, and the team stuck with it.

[Enoch Root]

And I would take that argument back to the EDM series...

We can debate whether Markstrom's play resulted in the team playing worse, or whether the team's bad play led to Markstrom being worse (high quality shots). Of course there is some of both, but I have argued from day 1 that his weak play in game one, when they were completely dominating, gave the Oilers life. And it continued in game 2. IMO, Markstrom's weak play gave the Oilers the upper hand. Now, the Flames should have found a way to reverse that, and they didn't, but that is a different discussion. And on that note, I still think they might have recovered if Sutter had put Vladar in net. We will never know obviously, but something needed to be done, and the bottom line is that they never did find a way to turn things around.

[Enoch Root]

Having said that, I also want to say that anyone who says Markstrom was out-goaltended, or was the 2nd best goalie against DAL is totally missing the plot. Markstrom was fantastic in that series. And not only that, but anything less than fantastic would have resulted in the Flames losing the series.

The only way the Flames advance from that series was if Markstrom was the 2nd best goalie in round one. And he was. He did what was required in order to win the series. Trying to downplay that is pretty silly, IMO.

[dino7c]

It's also ridiculously hard to not have a shot for 30+ mins in real time and then stop a 2 on 1 or breakaway

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yup. The soft goal that made it 3-2 changed the game, and the way both teams played.

The goal that made it 1-1 last night didn't change the game because it wasn't soft, it was just lucky. Vladar was playing well, and the team stuck with it.

I don't really disagree but I guarantee that if Markstrom lets in that goal it's called soft.

In Markstrom's defence as well, in the 3rd period he made two great stops that preserved the point at least.

That all said, Vladar should start for the time being. Just to see how both goalies react. The Flames play BTB on Jan 26-27. Markstrom can get one of those. Maybe one of the 5 preceding as well, unless Vladar is really on a streak.

[Ullr]

Second win of the season on a Thursday. I was beginning to think that Thursday game days were cursed this season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It's also ridiculously hard to not have a shot for 30+ mins in real time and then stop a 2 on 1 or breakaway

Honest question during timeouts can they not take some shots on our goalies?

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He was a .943 save% and 1.53 GAA

Reto Berra?

Come on.

He mentions Berra but actual stats compare him to Kipper

https://twitter.com/SNstats/status/1...ave-percentage

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I wouldn't say he was "amazing" against Dallas. The Flames absolutely dominating Dallas with a stranglehold, and even the Reto Berra types would have posted good numbers in that situation.

Well actually we have lost series when we totally dominated and our goalie was outplayed badly- see Kidd, 95

In this case, you are wrong, stats don't lie, there is a goalie comparison for his series but its not Berra

https://twitter.com/SNstats/status/1...ave-percentage

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

100%

And the stat that supports what you are saying? Their records. It's about winning, and they win more when Vladar is in the net. Obviously, a LOT goes into winning vs losing, but when your goalie is making the big save at the key time, the team will react positively.

This is why Gretzky always talked about Fuhr making the big save - he didn't care how many goals Fuhr let in, only that he could be counted on to make the big save when it was needed.

That is the difference between Vladar and Markstrom right now

What is the betting line on Sutter starting Markstrom Saturday?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Honest question during timeouts can they not take some shots on our goalies?

Don't think so.

They used to allow a warmup for a replacement goalie, then IIRC that changed to only if the switch was due to injury, then they took that away as well.

I don't know if it's against the rules for a player to take a spare puck and shoot at the goalie during commercials but I suspect the ref would take the puck right away.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Honest question during timeouts can they not take some shots on our goalies?

No

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Bottom line I hope Vladar runs with it.

If he can put some wins together it solves a lot of issues

- more security in a playoff spot
- more "value" in net
- Markstrom becomes highly motivated to get his net back

everyone wins

The opposite is the concern ... Dallas picks apart Vladar and suddenly the goalie controversy is not having a goalie at all.

I agree Vladar definitely needs more starts, but I think people have to pump the brakes a little on anointing him the new starter. It's a big shift going from playing once a week to 3 times a week, and there are plenty of goalies who have been stellar backups over the years who falter when given a starter's load.

I'm really hoping Vladar has the capability to be a starter, as that opens up the possibility to run 1A/1B. Even if Markstrom re-finds his game and takes back the starting net, I think it would be really beneficial to reduce his workload during the regular season so that he is more fresh for the playoffs. I think someone did some good analysis a while back showing that almost every goalie who has won a cup in the last 15 years (or something like that) played significantly fewer games in the regular season than Markstrom did last year. Markstrom is somehow still on pace to play close to 60 regular season games this year which seems totally unnecessary given Vladar's competency.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Yikes

What is the betting line on Sutter starting Markstrom Saturday?

I believe Sutter plans on Markstrom to play Dallas, hoping that playing the team he helped defeat in the playoffs, will bring some necessary confidence, so Sutter can play him again against Nashville. I don't believe for a minute Sutter plans on stringing a couple games for Vladar at this point, hope I'm wrong.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I couldn't locate zone time spent in the defensive zone but a stat that matches the eye test of us spending more time this season chasing is the giveaways we are 11th in the NHL in defensive zone giveaways and 3rd overall in the NHL in giveaways in total.

10th in takeaways.